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The case against the Twitter apology and our culture of performed remorse

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Re: The case against the Twitter apology and our culture of performed remorse

#81

Post by Mikeb85 »

nmz wrote: post #64
washadjeffmad wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apologies don't necessarily imply wrongdoing. An apology can be issued to acknowledge inconvenience or understanding, or to indicate someone is being heard. You can apologize for not changing or for disagreeing.

Example: "I'm sorry to say this but" ... Means you acknowledge the hurt saying something will cause but you still need to say it. because it needs to be said.

No it means you pretend to apologise but are really talking more shit. Everyone knows the part before the "but" is passive aggressive window dressing and means nothing.

Re: The case against the Twitter apology and our culture of performed remorse

#82

Post by user3939382 »

tsylba wrote: post #80

Once a media is accepted and known by the multitude it becomes performative, a spectacle where authenticity vanished preempted by new social rules. Beaudrillard's hyperreality describes the situation where we don't live in reality anymore but in the image of the reality we build, akin to an AI learning from data generated by another AI. It seems our current internet culture - heavily centralized, and universally used…

> hyperreality describes the situation where we don't live in reality anymore but in the image of the reality we build

This concept is almost tautological since the only conceivable alternative would be universal omniscience.

Re: The case against the Twitter apology and our culture of performed remorse

#84

Post by user3939382 »

ldldldo wrote: post #79
giraffe_lady wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I genuinely don't think it's compatible with contemporary western morality that holds that actions are either valid expressions of self-actualization and so require no apology, or are transgressions for which no forgiveness is possible. The idea that regardless of a person's "right" to make a certain choice, an action can be so harmful that it cannot be corrected, but also that it can be forgiven is too far from how…

This is true, but "contemporary" isn't the right adjective. This is the culture of the moralist left, of the blue cities, of the Coast, of Progressivism as the only moral ideology In the US, at least, if you engage with conservative culture, with Christians, with rural people, with the people who are tired of "cancel culture," you will still find plenty of grace. I'm an independent. Over the last few years, it has be…

> everyone could stand to listen to Christ on this topic

Yup.

The new thing is that we’re too smart and cool for all the things religion teaches, while we scratch our heads trying to solve all the problems it gives you the solution for.

Re: The case against the Twitter apology and our culture of performed remorse

#85

Post by jmull »

yanderekko wrote: post #76
jmull wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you make your money based on how popular you are, you are going to lose money, one way or another, if you start pissing off lots of people. Bullying and playground politics just isn't the right way to think about this. Kyrie, e.g., put the economic pressure on himself. Nike sells shoes. They don't want to pay him anymore because he can't sell shoes nearly as well now, and might impact their ability to sell shoes l…

Yes, and? Again, this is just an explanation of why one should expect insincere apologies - because the apology is being made for financial reasons, not genuine contrition.

I don't disagree that insincere apologies usually don't work very well.

My point is that the "socioeconomic pressure" in many cases has nothing to do "bullying," "threats," or "playground politics". It can be self-inflicted: If you lower your value to the people who give you money, they will no longer want to give you as much money.

Re: The case against the Twitter apology and our culture of performed remorse

#86

Post by executive »

nmz wrote: post #66

I've always fantasized about a facebook like dirty laundry website. basically a place where people freely and anonymously perform slander and indicate all the wrongdoings of everyone. Not unlike what we have now, but organized. It would either completely break some people, or show how incredibly hypocritical mob justice is with their public shaming.

https://thedirty.com/

Re: The case against the Twitter apology and our culture of performed remorse

#87

Post by glial »

ldldldo wrote: post #79
giraffe_lady wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I genuinely don't think it's compatible with contemporary western morality that holds that actions are either valid expressions of self-actualization and so require no apology, or are transgressions for which no forgiveness is possible. The idea that regardless of a person's "right" to make a certain choice, an action can be so harmful that it cannot be corrected, but also that it can be forgiven is too far from how…

This is true, but "contemporary" isn't the right adjective. This is the culture of the moralist left, of the blue cities, of the Coast, of Progressivism as the only moral ideology In the US, at least, if you engage with conservative culture, with Christians, with rural people, with the people who are tired of "cancel culture," you will still find plenty of grace. I'm an independent. Over the last few years, it has be…

I grew up in the American south, hearing I would go to hell if I had premarital sex, took God's name in vain, or watched the Simpson's. There wasn't really a 'cultural left' where I lived (or I wasn't aware of it), but I was well aware that the Christian right had a stranglehold on the idea of morality.

Now that situation seems to have shifted, and the left has adopted and re-branded ideas of original sin, absolution, performative prayer, etc. But I don't believe for a minute that folks in my hometown have discovered how to embody the idea of grace and cultural liberality. If anything I see more antagonism now that evangelism and Trumpism have created a terrible two-headed beast.

Re: The case against the Twitter apology and our culture of performed remorse

#88

Post by logicalmonster »

JSchmoe wrote: post #70
logicalmonster wrote: post #20

Has anybody well-known ever used a phrase like "For my own personal safety, I apologize for XYZ transgression" when apologizing to a Twitter mob? Kind of curious how that simultaneous apology and subtle call-out might work.

That'd make no sense to do. The "Twitter mob" remains angry and now a few more people are annoyed that you openly gave a non-apology.

The reason I brought up that phrase is that Scott Adams of the Dilbert cartoon endorsed Hillary in 2016 using this exact language, despite actually liking Trump.

> "So I’ve decided to endorse Hillary Clinton for President, for my personal safety."

If I recall correctly, he says that merely that endorsement, however transparently fake it was, got a lot of people off of his back.

Re: The case against the Twitter apology and our culture of performed remorse

#89

Post by erichocean »

user3939382 wrote: post #82
tsylba wrote: post #80

Once a media is accepted and known by the multitude it becomes performative, a spectacle where authenticity vanished preempted by new social rules. Beaudrillard's hyperreality describes the situation where we don't live in reality anymore but in the image of the reality we build, akin to an AI learning from data generated by another AI. It seems our current internet culture - heavily centralized, and universally used…

> hyperreality describes the situation where we don't live in reality anymore but in the image of the reality we build This concept is almost tautological since the only conceivable alternative would be universal omniscience.

Eh? The Amish (for instance) don't live in hyperreality (by Beaudrillard's definition).

Re: The case against the Twitter apology and our culture of performed remorse

#90

Post by tsylba »

user3939382 wrote: post #82
tsylba wrote: post #80

Once a media is accepted and known by the multitude it becomes performative, a spectacle where authenticity vanished preempted by new social rules. Beaudrillard's hyperreality describes the situation where we don't live in reality anymore but in the image of the reality we build, akin to an AI learning from data generated by another AI. It seems our current internet culture - heavily centralized, and universally used…

> hyperreality describes the situation where we don't live in reality anymore but in the image of the reality we build This concept is almost tautological since the only conceivable alternative would be universal omniscience.

I might have add "upon itself".

There is much to say about what is reality, and you can bring researcher like Hoffmann stating that we see of reality only what is good for our peak survival (don't need infrared, don't see infrared).

Hyperreality is something else altogether. First, it's a common theme in postmodernist to state we live in a construct culturally accepted and ever evolving. Hyperreality states that we accept for reality layers that are objectively not, and make it "more real than real". The flavors of energy drinks (with weird names and chemically cultivated), porn for sex, Disney land as archetypal America, tv reality (which is everything but reality). Transposing the sign-value for the thing by itself. Words does not mean the thing that they use to mean but are reinterpreted upon this biased view of reality.

The map is not the territory, the word are not the reality behind them.

Media are more problematic because they are the message (see McLuhan), they are a space we live in (the water the fish flow in), not "reality" sense by our direct organ.

But yeah it's tricky, there is a philosophical conundrum, I get your point.

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