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“Negative/hate tweets will be max deboosted and demonetized”

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Re: “Negative/hate tweets will be max deboosted and demonetized”

#81

Post by endominus »

zamalek wrote: post #80
endominus wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except this doesn't prove the point asked. I can literally write your second example and in fact, I will; I hereby order whatever shadowy figures monitor all internet communications to kick zamalek off of the internet. There; has that in any way impacted your ability to respond to me? Has my speech at all affected yours? The thing you're actually against is the execution of an action, killing or hanging or whatever e…

What if I followed you around and shouted my speech really loudly every time you tried to speak?

What if I had a sonic cannon that could blast a house off it's foundations? Is a DDoS attack speech? No. No one argues that in good faith. Stop justifying your conclusions by redefining speech to something else. There are actual, reasonable arguments for the limitations of speech - "speech is actually just any noise and people can play noise really loudly and that can cause hearing damage" is not one of them.

Re: “Negative/hate tweets will be max deboosted and demonetized”

#82

Post by bb88 »

thomascgalvin wrote: post #75
nimbius wrote: post #38

Not to put too fine a point on it, but this is the sort of damage control id expect to see from someone only peripherally aware of or involved in their businesses accountability or strategic operations. This concern from advertisers has existed far too long for an executive action to have any meaning. the marketing conference call on november 3rd was your red flag where advertisers voiced their displeasure with firin…

> At this point its best to hope markets dont start reconsidering your other companies as risky business. I think this is inevitable. One, Elon is trying to prop up Twitter by using SpaceX money to buy ads. He's dipping his hand into other companies to keep his new toy afloat for a while longer. I don't know if the word "contamination" is appropriate here, but it's pretty clear that Elon doesn't see any kind of sharp…

Elon deserves a lot of credit for Tesla. But now I'm starting to hear the term "Muskmobile" bandied about when people refer to his car. It's not like Tesla is the only game in town anymore either.

In a weird tangent, I've been thinking about the TV Show "Ted Lasso", and why it's so popular lately. Ted Lasso is the exact opposite of Elon Musk, even to a fault. People don't care if Elon succeeds anymore, but they do want Ted Lasso to.

Re: “Negative/hate tweets will be max deboosted and demonetized”

#83

Post by zamalek »

endominus wrote: post #81
zamalek wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if I followed you around and shouted my speech really loudly every time you tried to speak?

What if I had a sonic cannon that could blast a house off it's foundations? Is a DDoS attack speech? No. No one argues that in good faith. Stop justifying your conclusions by redefining speech to something else. There are actual, reasonable arguments for the limitations of speech - "speech is actually just any noise and people can play noise really loudly and that can cause hearing damage" is not one of them.

You are restating my argument as using a sonic cannon. That is not what I said. I said: what happens if I shout my speech so as to obscure yours?

Given the strawman, I guess that you don't have an answer.

Re: “Negative/hate tweets will be max deboosted and demonetized”

#84

Post by endominus »

zamalek wrote: post #83
endominus wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if I had a sonic cannon that could blast a house off it's foundations? Is a DDoS attack speech? No. No one argues that in good faith. Stop justifying your conclusions by redefining speech to something else. There are actual, reasonable arguments for the limitations of speech - "speech is actually just any noise and people can play noise really loudly and that can cause hearing damage" is not one of them.

You are restating my argument as using a sonic cannon. That is not what I said. I said: what happens if I shout my speech so as to obscure yours? Given the strawman, I guess that you don't have an answer.

Your argument is, abstractly, "Isn't censorship also speech?" My response is, no, censorship is not covered under free speech. This is a faulty supposition that many people who are generally opposed to free speech hold. Preventing people from hearing someone speak is self-evidently the most anti-free-speech act it is possible for a private individual to do.

Re: “Negative/hate tweets will be max deboosted and demonetized”

#85

Post by tclancy »

achenatx wrote: post #61
elgenioso wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not a solvable problem. There is no algorithmic way to detect speech that needs to be boosted and deboosted on social media because there is no way to actually algorithmically detect what is truthful and what is just manipulative propaganda and marketing.

it isnt about truth or fiction, it is negative/hate tweets. I run a politics forum and the one rule is no insulting other people, groups, or positions. This makes for a very civil, but bland conversation. People engage with negative/hate tweets. I personally like talking politics without insults, but most people are incapable of it. It is easy to detect insults.

Ok, now scale to a few hundred millions users in lots of languages.

Re: “Negative/hate tweets will be max deboosted and demonetized”

#86

Post by erichocean »

zamalek wrote: post #77
mh- wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That last one would already fail the Brandenburg test [0], wouldn't it? (I'm not a lawyer.) [0] https://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/resources/inciting-to-...

> Brandenburg test The Brandenburg Test doesn't apply to free speech absolutism.

Elon Musk has already said he supports unrestricted *legal* speech on Twitter, and that individual cultures should decide what that is for themselves, through their local legal system.

He's not a "free speech absolutist."

Re: “Negative/hate tweets will be max deboosted and demonetized”

#87

Post by brookst »

drooby wrote: post #49
elgenioso wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not a solvable problem. There is no algorithmic way to detect speech that needs to be boosted and deboosted on social media because there is no way to actually algorithmically detect what is truthful and what is just manipulative propaganda and marketing.

Quick! Someone write an AI that classifies the likelihood of informal fallacies.

100%

Re: “Negative/hate tweets will be max deboosted and demonetized”

#88

Post by oxfordmale »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #22

I'm certainly not a fan of how Musk has handled the Twitter takeover, but this sentiment, "New Twitter policy is freedom of speech, but not freedom of reach", seems highly reasonable to me, no? That is, what I find so awful about most social media (and places like YouTube) is how they focus on some of the most anger-inducing content for "engagement". That is, I think the problem is much more their algorithms than wha…

It is unfortunately not how Twitter works. It is very hard to restrict freedom of reach. If you follow a person with extreme opinions, you will still see their posts. Even if Twitter managed to address that problem, there will be users that created curated list of Tweets of interest to their followers.

...and not to forget the mainstream media that love to refer to extremist tweets as it is an easy article to write.

Re: “Negative/hate tweets will be max deboosted and demonetized”

#89

Post by lmarcos »

achenatx wrote: post #61
elgenioso wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not a solvable problem. There is no algorithmic way to detect speech that needs to be boosted and deboosted on social media because there is no way to actually algorithmically detect what is truthful and what is just manipulative propaganda and marketing.

it isnt about truth or fiction, it is negative/hate tweets. I run a politics forum and the one rule is no insulting other people, groups, or positions. This makes for a very civil, but bland conversation. People engage with negative/hate tweets. I personally like talking politics without insults, but most people are incapable of it. It is easy to detect insults.

I don't know about English, but in other languages you need to know the context to distinguish "hate" speech and insults. If I call someone "You, motherf*er!", without context you don't know if I'm insulting that person or just acknowledging my friend who just made a great joke.

Re: “Negative/hate tweets will be max deboosted and demonetized”

#90

Post by pjc50 »

phailhaus wrote: post #40

Oh great, more unaccountable black-box "algorithms" that invisibly classify your tweets. Machines can't detect satire, they don't understand nuance or context, they don't understand tone. This will affect platform speech in strange ways as people naturally attempt to evade the algorithm. Twitter needs a dislike button. Every social media platform needs a mechanism for explicit negative feedback. Yes, people will use…

Twitter has a dislike button .. for replies.
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