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If you (still) work at Twitter and you can code, head to the HQ now

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Re: If you (still) work at Twitter and you can code, head to the HQ now

#391
Work on the software is very difficult to judge. In a company I worked for, only very technical groups get an A+ grade in the internal evaluation, because the evaluators don't understand anything. If you worked on the FFMPG + some obscure acronyms, get an A+ and never delay the delivery. But if you worked on a website, everyone would get in the way, delay the delivery, and you'd get a D-.

I understand the difficulties of judging and some crazy systems created to help with that.

But checking how many lines of code someone writes is more than crazy.

My last tasks as a developer in the last few weeks. - I created an index - I put a line of code in a login controller to fix a bug

A lot of my work is helping co-workers with setups and stuff like that.

In many companies, my work did not leave a record. I don't stand a chance with bosses like Elon Musk.

Musk is probably testing the developers' fidelity, and if true, he's crazier than judging someone by code line count.

Required: https://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?story=Negative_2000_Li...

Re: If you (still) work at Twitter and you can code, head to the HQ now

#392

I'd love to see some code snippets that he likes.. because i can't grasp what would make good screenshots in this context. If i were Elon i'd want to see "dumb" looking code which brings together a larger, complex thing in a simple way. The larger picture is complex, but composed of simple primitives. Every piece looks unimpressive because experience taught the right abstractions to write things in a simple, testable…

yeah how much can you derive from a screenshot anyway? code formatting, variable naming? any references to classes/data structures/whatever not defined in the screenshot can't be attributed to the screenshot owner. maybe everyone is getting fired for putting '{' on a newline??? i have no idea.

Probably exactly that. Looking for devs who used an if statement instead of a ternary operator. Not realizing that its sometimes really fucking useful to have readable code.

Or the opposite lol, it's all subjective anyways.

Re: If you (still) work at Twitter and you can code, head to the HQ now

#393
post #81

Even as long-time skeptic of Musk's ballyhooed business/engineering acumen, I have no clue what's going on here. Surely nobody at this level could be this brazenly incompetent when it comes to communicating a vision and building some sense of unity. Even the biggest fakers in the world are self-aware about the importance of maintaining the illusion of power and control. If you had told me that these emails were being…

I've gotten the impression that a lot of people at high levels get there through a kind of self-perpetuating prestige cycle, often starting at an elite school and jumping between high-prestige jobs from there. The measure of success is not what they've done (which is mostly taking credit for other people's work), but what it looks like they've done. Starting a big-name company matters more than whether that company goes belly-up five years later. The people who end up on top are the ones who get extra-lucky and capitalize on it.

A recent example from tech is Adam Neumann (the WeWork guy) who came up with an absurd business model for commercial real estate, led a widely-ridiculed IPO, and lit a billion dollars of other people's money on fire. A couple years later a16z announces they're giving him a third of a billion dollars to fail again because (paraphrasing from memory) he was the only person who made a profound effort to transform the real estate market.

You can also see smaller-scale examples in media. There are New York Times op ed columnists who have been wrong about everything for decades, but they keep getting invitations from talk shows and universities and publishing companies because of the prestige of being a NYT columnist. But a big reason they're still a columnist is because of all the prestige they get from doing that other stuff.

It's a circular process, and it seems to be hard to fall out of unless you fail publicly and catastrophically. Sometimes it takes multiple such failures. These people all run in the same social circles, which probably also helps. I suspect an awful lot of elites would fare poorly in a real skill-based competition for their official jobs, and consciously or unconsciously act to prevent such a culture from developing.

I don't know any of these people personally, so take this with a large grain of salt. But in the case of Musk, it's clear to me that nobody who spends that much time being a flamboyant asshole on Twitter can be getting any real work done, much less running 2-4 different companies at a time. His real job is prestige development. I'm not sure he has anything in his playbook that doesn't rely on a pre-existing desire to work with The Great Elon Musk and his Great World-Changing Companies. Like many elites, when forced to focus on his official job, he is mediocre at best.

Re: If you (still) work at Twitter and you can code, head to the HQ now

#394

If there’s one thing I’ve learnt from this whole debacle, it’s that US employment law is fucked. I can’t believe worker protections are so poor in such a forward thinking, modern country. The things he’s getting away with sound like something out of a Victorian factory.

I'm not sure we're forward looking or modern? We have no trains. Sprawl. Won't build housing. A third of the country seems to believe we should aspire to be in a Margaret Atwood novel.

Re: If you (still) work at Twitter and you can code, head to the HQ now

#395

I'm no Elon fan, but why does essentially everyone in these threads automatically assume he is wrong? Has no one here worked at companies where there was more dead weight than talent? Where 80% of the work being done is by 20% of the people, and there are whole teams that do almost nothing? What if there is no clean, efficient way to discover who should be fired and so Elon's fallback plan is to test for who really w…

It's pretty much what they have been doing since the acquisition. It's based on 80/20 rule thinking and is taught in MBA programs. First they dropped orgs and teams they just didn't find useful any longer like large swaths of the HR team, marketing, etc. Then they asked leaders to identify the bottom ~30% of performers and culled them. Now you're left with the "better half" of the company. But Musk isn't through yet…

Why would top performers stick around after being told they’ll be forced to work long hours without any benefit? It seems like only the desperate would stay. From what we’ve read the majority of those who stayed did so because they are on visas, meaning they would be deported if they left the company.

Re: If you (still) work at Twitter and you can code, head to the HQ now

#396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of jobs work precisely like that. If you want to argue whether the people who do them should get US$100k/yr, that's a different question.

It’s literally the question being asked, not a different question.

I don't consider that clear at all.

Lots of development jobs involve doing work that isn't flashy, showy or even cool. Does the lack of flashy, showy cool stuff mean it's of less value? Almost certainly not. There are other reasons why a specific developer may not be "pulling their weight", but a bunch of code excerpts is about the least likely way to discover them.

Re: If you (still) work at Twitter and you can code, head to the HQ now

#397

If there’s one thing I’ve learnt from this whole debacle, it’s that US employment law is fucked. I can’t believe worker protections are so poor in such a forward thinking, modern country. The things he’s getting away with sound like something out of a Victorian factory.

Nobody knowledgeable is going to argue that US employment law is great, but in much of the US worker protections are targeted towards those that do not make a lot of money.

Twitter's software developers make a lot of money. The only similarity to a Victorian factory worker is that they have two arms and legs (but all of their fingers and toes).

Re: If you (still) work at Twitter and you can code, head to the HQ now

#398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of Seniors/Staff don't write "code". They're architecting/planning/guiding. If I'm a Senior Staff DevOps engineer who maintains our entire Kube infra, am I gonna show Elon some sweet YAML configs? "Oh here's my Go templating for our org wide Helm charts that isn't really novel but is really important?"

I mean honestly, yeah? If I was forced to take part in this absolutely idiotic exercise I’d be including descriptions of the purpose of the code along with the screenshots/printouts. “These are the configuration files I maintain. Collectively these control the orchestration of 9,000 of our servers which make up over 80% of our infrastructure” would be be pretty compelling. Ultimately, while he’s going about it in an…

Or it's just a brute expression of dominance to find out who the subservient employees are.

A hazing ritual to find out who is properly loyal, and who is unwilling to bend the knee.

I don't think he cares too much about the screenshots themselves. I think this is a pretty simple test to see who comes running to the 10th floor and who says: "that's insane, no".

Re: If you (still) work at Twitter and you can code, head to the HQ now

#399
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm seriously wondering if this is drug related. I dont think he was always this erratic.

He's always had an outsized ego, a lot of money from his family that masked his individual success, and, up until now, was successful at cosplaying an engineer. Good people tend to give others the benefit of the doubt. My personal point of no return is when those children were trapped in a cave, and Elon musk came in to turn that crisis situation into a publicity stunt to further his engineer cosplay.

How rich was his family, and how many families are as rich or richer than that in the world?

Re: If you (still) work at Twitter and you can code, head to the HQ now

#400
post #58

What if Twitter actually succeeds after this? I'm not saying that it's likely, but what if? Let's imagine it as a thought exercise. What will this say about the current state of software engineering in startups and big techs?

If elon has a massive success, which I define as taking Twitter back public in 2-3 years at a huge profit, then likely wallstreet will start to demand copycat behavior from public tech companies.
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