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The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns

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Re: The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns

#341

Post by shkkmo »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #286
shkkmo wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Chinese government owns tiktok Only figuratively in the hacker/gamer sense. TikTok is owned by ByteSense. The "TikTok can be used to spy on americans" is much like "Russians interfered in our elections". Both are true, both are legitimately very concerning, but both are also things that the USA has been doing for decades with minimal domestic outcry. So implicit in our attempts to reign in other countries behav…

>Only figuratively in the hacker/gamer sense. TikTok is owned by ByteSense. No, in the very literal sense that Bytedance has a board of directors, and on that board is a CCP member who has the real final say on everything the company does. When you are a business in China, you defacto work for the government. China isn't America with a red flag, it's a fundamentally different system. Too many people think they know C…

> No, in the very literal sense that Bytedance has a board of directors,

The board of directors of a company are not generally owners.

> and on that board is a CCP member who has the real final say on everything the company does

Which is why it's figuratively true in the "pwn" sense, but not literally true.

Wording matters, and so does getting the facts right.

Re: The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns

#342

Post by spookie »

tenpies wrote: post #230
josefresco wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> nobody wants to switch There's no reason to switch now. Ban TikTok and people will switch.

Will it? Part of Tiktok's genius is that you don't even need an account to view content, or even the app - the browser experience is quite good. Now compare the friction between wanting to see a Tiktok right now, versus trying to see one of whatever Snap's equivalent is, or Facebook and Instagram's. Tiktok is absolute butter, on browser or app.

Maybe that friction exists cause western companies follow some pesky regulations about user data. And, they want to make sure they can monetize their content by blocking unlimited access to those who have not accepted their terms and conditions.

Maybe tiktok doesn't follow those to begin with...

Re: The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns

#343

Post by Workaccount2 »

pessimizer wrote: post #334
Workaccount2 wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Only figuratively in the hacker/gamer sense. TikTok is owned by ByteSense. No, in the very literal sense that Bytedance has a board of directors, and on that board is a CCP member who has the real final say on everything the company does. When you are a business in China, you defacto work for the government. China isn't America with a red flag, it's a fundamentally different system. Too many people think they know C…

> No, in the very literal sense that Bytedance has a board of directors, and on that board is a CCP member who has the real final say on everything the company does. When you are a business in China, you defacto work for the government. Would you say the same thing if they employed CIA and NSA people in executive positions, and had ex-generals and ex-spooks on the board?

No. A CIA agent might have ulterior motives being on a board, but they are just another board member (I also doubt many board members are secretly CIA).

Every company in China however answers directly to the part, and every board has a party member on it, who holds 100% of the voting power.

There really isn't a comparison to be made.

Re: The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns

#344

Post by Workaccount2 »

shkkmo wrote: post #341
Workaccount2 wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Only figuratively in the hacker/gamer sense. TikTok is owned by ByteSense. No, in the very literal sense that Bytedance has a board of directors, and on that board is a CCP member who has the real final say on everything the company does. When you are a business in China, you defacto work for the government. China isn't America with a red flag, it's a fundamentally different system. Too many people think they know C…

> No, in the very literal sense that Bytedance has a board of directors, The board of directors of a company are not generally owners. > and on that board is a CCP member who has the real final say on everything the company does Which is why it's figuratively true in the "pwn" sense, but not literally true. Wording matters, and so does getting the facts right.

No, it is literally true that every company has a party member they must answer too. Whether its a board member or a local party representative.

There is no business autonomy with a court to settle differences. The party wants it, the party gets it. Full Stop.

>The board of directors of a company are not generally owners.

Like I said, China is not America. On Chinese Boards sits a party member who has absolute control. China doesn't care what function American boards typically serve.

Re: The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns

#345

Post by shkkmo »

computerfriend wrote: post #302
pksebben wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we either need to narrowly define whataboutism or stop using it altogether. in discussions like these it takes the role of a hammer to beat anyone that questions American exceptionalism and it's kinda gross. it always goes along the lines of your thread; a: "hey, look at awful thing x is doing, we should do something about that" b: "we do that too, and it is bad. we should fix it" a: "that's whataboutism and…

That's interesting, because I feel the exact same way but on the opposite side. "we do that too, and it is bad." just reads as deflection to me. This comment section is full of it and it's very tiresome.

I see nowhere in this comment chain, where "we do that too" was used as an attempt to shut down discussion or to justify the bad behavior.

What it was being used to do was to support the argument that "instead of just banning one company, we should create rules that apply fairly."

That isn't deflection.

Notably, the first non-TikTok entities that were mentioned as needing to be reigned in were the KGB. Nobody complained that was off topic.

So while "whataboutism" and allegations of "whataboutism" can both be (edit: and frequently are) used to distract and deflect, that doesn't mean that every instance of either is doing that. You have to ACTUALLY READ what is being said and how it relates, not make snap judgments.

Re: The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns

#346

Post by rasz »

p0pcult wrote: post #165
deeblering4 wrote: post #153

TikTok as-is presents a massive attack surface for (d|m)information and worse. And the version available in the US is highly addictive with numerous bubble creating feedback loops. The amount of engagement and time spent on the app is incredible. The creators know this and provide an alternate version called Douyin used domestically which optimizes for educational content and has additional rules/safeguards https://w…

Compelling news story, but is there a less-tabloid source? In my cursory Googling, I haven't been able to find anything. Murdoch-owned media is pretty low in my trustworthiness/objectivity rankings.

Here you go https://www.nrk.no/osloogviken/xl/tiktok-doesn_t-show-the-wa...

Re: The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns

#347

Post by shkkmo »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #344
shkkmo wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No, in the very literal sense that Bytedance has a board of directors, The board of directors of a company are not generally owners. > and on that board is a CCP member who has the real final say on everything the company does Which is why it's figuratively true in the "pwn" sense, but not literally true. Wording matters, and so does getting the facts right.

No, it is literally true that every company has a party member they must answer too. Whether its a board member or a local party representative. There is no business autonomy with a court to settle differences. The party wants it, the party gets it. Full Stop. >The board of directors of a company are not generally owners. Like I said, China is not America. On Chinese Boards sits a party member who has absolute contro…

> No, it is literally true that every company has a party member they must answer too. Whether its a board member or a local party representative.

Which still doesn't make it literally true that: "The Chinese government owns tiktok", (unless, in addition to using "own" figuratively you are also using "literal" in the now common sense that actually means "figurative").

Re: The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns

#348

Post by lzooz »

lm28469 wrote: post #275
lzooz wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd blame France for their immigration policies more than I would blame a platform full of user-generated content

Feel free to elaborate on this cryptic comment

France allowed particular demographics to come to the country until they reached a critical mass and became dangerous. That shouldn't have happened.

Re: The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns

#349

Post by vorpalhex »

DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #320
vorpalhex wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the genocide of a people concerns us all.

The loose use of the word "genocide" in recent years is extremely concerning. Nothing that is going on in China can be called a "genocide." No one (that I am aware of) is even alleging that China is carrying out any mass killings of any group. The use of the term "genocide" in relation to the Uyghurs is transparently propaganda, which began with Mike Pompeo during the Trump administration. Even the US State Departmen…

They are locking a distinct ethnic minority in internment camps and sterilizing their women.

That is a genocide. They are attempting to remove the Uyghur people.

Re: The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns

#350

Post by vorpalhex »

krolden wrote: post #236
vorpalhex wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the genocide of a people concerns us all.

You mean like the native Americans? Pretty sure that's still the largest scale, most drawn out genocide in the entire history of our species.

If you know of any Native Americans currently being genocided, please do call someone about it.

Unless you are suggesting that because of some previous genocide we should ignore an ongoing one?

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