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The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns

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Re: The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns

#301

Post by SkyMarshal »

ZainRiz wrote: post #290
pjc50 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

sigh can we not have targeted-by-nationality bans and instead have .. rules? If Tiktok the app is performing surveillance, ban surveillance by apps . All of them. Or make it technically impossible to escape its little sandbox, and let people have their entertainment.

If you read the first paragraph of the article, the primary concern mentioned is not surveillance, it's influencing the American public in ways that benefits China and harms the US. Psy-ops effectively Here's a segment by 60 Minutes explaining how they show their own citizens educational, beneficial content inspiring them to be better citizens, while the rest of the world gets the degenerative content we usually asso…

Don't know why you're being downvoted without explanation, this is absolutely the case, among others.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33657429

Re: The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns

#302

Post by computerfriend »

pksebben wrote: post #287
shkkmo wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Literally the exact same topic: making a list of the worst infractors. Edit: Here's the summary of this thread so far: 1) Let's make a rule against it instead of just hitting companies based on their nationality 2) A rule would be great, but in the mean time let's target the worst actors 3) These US based spy agencies do a bunch of stuff that is similar, where are they on that list? 4) That's off topic whataboutism 5…

I think we either need to narrowly define whataboutism or stop using it altogether. in discussions like these it takes the role of a hammer to beat anyone that questions American exceptionalism and it's kinda gross. it always goes along the lines of your thread; a: "hey, look at awful thing x is doing, we should do something about that" b: "we do that too, and it is bad. we should fix it" a: "that's whataboutism and…

That's interesting, because I feel the exact same way but on the opposite side. "we do that too, and it is bad." just reads as deflection to me. This comment section is full of it and it's very tiresome.

Re: The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns

#303

Post by zip1234 »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #125
cscurmudgeon wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> can we not have targeted-by-nationality bans and instead have .. rules? Let's have reciprocal rules. If country X bans US social media then why shouldn't the US do the same?

Because USA supposedly values freedom of conscience and actions (within a framework) of its citizens, something it says distinguishes it from China. If they're distinguished in this way then them acting differently is expected.

The rule is that if you arbitrarily block American companies then your country gets blocked too. It's called fair competition. If you open your country for American companies that are treated the same as your companies then we will do the same. Otherwise, no. The Chinese government and it's companies should not be treated as American citizens.

Re: The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns

#304

Post by clcaev »

_fat_santa wrote: post #274
standardUser wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"engaged in adversarial conduct against the West for years - including extensive psyops." And the US has an extensive and well-documented record of doing exactly this to other nations (and far, far worse). If we start a new Cold War every between every two nations that try to undermine each other we'll quickly run out of trading partners, which isn't going to work out too well for a preeminent trading nation (or it's…

I read an article the other day that argued that TikTok should not be banned on the basis of free speech. The argument is, while American's have the freedom to say whatever the hell we want, we have an arguably even more freedom when it comes to what we consume, with only very select content (CSAM for example) being illegal to consume. Yes there might be targeted misinformation there, but it's up to individual Americ…

The government should be concerned about protecting its citizens, as well as its political and economic environment. If a product is unsafe, it should be regulated; if the producer does not comply, it should be banned.

Re: The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns

#305

Post by andrewclunn »

yur3i__ wrote: post #295
andrewclunn wrote: post #288

Oh so our current owners are concerned that they might lose control of the culture to some new foreign owners? If I believed that the US security state was there to protect the American people I might be more concerned, as it stands this is just a changing of the guard for who will be our technocratic authoritarian overlords, and I can't be plotzed to care.

Thinking this change of "technocratic authoritarian overlords" is as much of a non-event as you seem to or that the Chinese level of control over the citzenry is equivalent to that of the USA is a crazy level of naivety that I can't even begin to unpack

Oh the Chinese are far worse at oppressing their own people, but the US seems to do a much better job of abusing foreign nations. It's not an apples to apples comparison.

Re: The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns

#306

Post by cscurmudgeon »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #125
cscurmudgeon wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> can we not have targeted-by-nationality bans and instead have .. rules? Let's have reciprocal rules. If country X bans US social media then why shouldn't the US do the same?

Because USA supposedly values freedom of conscience and actions (within a framework) of its citizens, something it says distinguishes it from China. If they're distinguished in this way then them acting differently is expected.

To be tolerant, you have to be intolerant of intolerance.

Re: The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns

#307

Post by hnrodey »

rvz wrote: post #115
hnrodey wrote: post #65

Trump: TikTok is a national security threat! America: XENOPHOBE! Biden: TikTok is a national security threat. America: SHUT IT DOWN!

This is true. However: This investigation into TikTok happened before Trump wanted the ban. [0][1] But the media just brainwashed a narrative to people who don't research because it came from his mouth at the ridiculous height of 2020. Just look at the TikTok fanatics back then defending and being in denial here after Trump wanted it banned on the same national security grounds [2]. Two years later under Biden, NOW i…

agree, on all counts

Re: The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns

#308

Post by cscurmudgeon »

mhb wrote: post #144
cscurmudgeon wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> can we not have targeted-by-nationality bans and instead have .. rules? Let's have reciprocal rules. If country X bans US social media then why shouldn't the US do the same?

Because, ceteris paribus, unilateral free trade benefits an entity regardless of whether its counterparty taxes or restricts its trade. Because comparative advantage. Because you don't jump off a bridge because Johnny jumped off a bridge.

> Because you don't jump off a bridge because Johnny jumped off a bridge.

Sorry, no, that analogy doesn't apply.

Here is a better one:

You invite Johnny to your home and he keeps hitting you and stealing from you (and you are banned from his house), you need to respond at some point.

Re: The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns

#309

Post by make3 »

pjc50 wrote: post #56
darkteflon wrote: post #12

Utterly ridiculous to allow TikTok to continue to operate in the current geopolitical climate. China is a surveillance autocracy and has been engaged in adversarial conduct against the West for years - including extensive psyops. Shut it down, yesterday. Build a local clone so that people can get their fix or whatever. China sure as shit doesn’t allow its citizens to cough up their personal information for algorithmi…

sigh can we not have targeted-by-nationality bans and instead have .. rules? If Tiktok the app is performing surveillance, ban surveillance by apps . All of them. Or make it technically impossible to escape its little sandbox, and let people have their entertainment.

rules are a tradeoff. being restrictive has downsides on what you can and can't do, you may affect negatively something that had only good intentions, you don't know. when you know someone is a bad actor, it is normal to make rules more restrictive, as you know that you're not negatively affecting good uses.

Re: The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns

#310

Post by SkyMarshal »

rosmax_1337 wrote: post #300
SkyMarshal wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm aware of that too, it's a problem, but the lesser one imho. At least there's some modicum of accountability with Western companies subject to Western laws, which Western citizens have some say in (if they get agitated enough at least), thus some possibility for reigning them in. There's much less or none with with Chinese companies operating in the West, and sending all the data they collect back to servers in Ch…

I don't live in the US, I have no clear way at all to change how US government agencies deal with data gathered from citizens of my country. I can't even vote there, not that "voting blue/red" would change this mess at all. It can't be more than a week ago that we discussed here on HN a way that MS Powerpoint can leak your entire presentation to microsoft. Lots of people in my country use the entire MS suite, and I d…

It's not impossible for other countries to affect US internet companies. The EU GDPR is probably the best example. Once that went into effect, every website began showing popups enabling users to control cookie settings for that website, even within the US to US citizens not subject to GDPR. If there's a country or block of countries with large enough population relative to US, and where US companies operate, it can have some influence on US.

That said, yes if you use FB/etc you should assume your data could be used by US intel agencies for similar purposes. Just don't use those apps. Heck, I'm American and refuse to Facebook or any of their other services (Insta, Whatsapp, Meta). None of this stuff is actually necessary to live a happy healthy life, and often even detracts from it.

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