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The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns

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Re: The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns

#261

Post by shkkmo »

computerfriend wrote: post #249
shkkmo wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The NSA and GCHQ can literally and legally do the exact same things. In what possible what does it have "nothing to do with this"? If you are making a list of the worst actors in terms of global surveillance, they have to be at the top... The only reasons not to include them are purely nationalistic.

Because it's a separate topic and you're engaging in whataboutism.

Literally the exact same topic: making a list of the worst infractors.

Edit: Here's the summary of this thread so far:

1) Let's make a rule against it instead of just hitting companies based on their nationality

2) A rule would be great, but in the mean time let's target the worst actors

3) These US based spy agencies do a bunch of stuff that is similar, where are they on that list?

4) That's off topic whataboutism

5) Seems like the same topic, why is it different?

6) It just is, no explanation required

Using "whataboutism" to try to shut down discussions you don't like is not intellectually interesting or useful.

Re: The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns

#262

Post by thesuitonym »

amelius wrote: post #184
thesuitonym wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Levy fines on app stores that allow surveillance apps.

What if the phone/appstore is Chinese?

If they do not operate in the US, then US laws don't apply.

If the do operate in the US, they must comply with US laws.

Re: The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns

#263

Post by krolden »

tenpies wrote: post #232
aeze wrote: post #228

I have a couple questions: 1) How is TikTok worse than other social media apps? Both in terms of privacy and "the algorithm". 2) What another country's government does with my data is far less important to me than what my government is doing with my data. Am I wrong for thinking that?

Exactly. The scariest part to me is that an unelected, partisan, US intelligence agency literally moderates the content on social media through their own purpose-made moderation portals[1], than anything China is doing. --- [1] https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/23129270-fb-portal

People here worried about tiktok seem to be in denial about how the USA has treated the internet (not to mention our constitutional rights, specifically the fourth amendment) for the last 20+ years.

There are no privacy laws of consequence when the people running the show report to no one and have zero oversight, yet they want us to worry about tiktok and China instead of pay attention to the gross violation of our rights by our own government.

Re: The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns

#264

Post by animitronix »

pjc50 wrote: post #56
darkteflon wrote: post #12

Utterly ridiculous to allow TikTok to continue to operate in the current geopolitical climate. China is a surveillance autocracy and has been engaged in adversarial conduct against the West for years - including extensive psyops. Shut it down, yesterday. Build a local clone so that people can get their fix or whatever. China sure as shit doesn’t allow its citizens to cough up their personal information for algorithmi…

sigh can we not have targeted-by-nationality bans and instead have .. rules? If Tiktok the app is performing surveillance, ban surveillance by apps . All of them. Or make it technically impossible to escape its little sandbox, and let people have their entertainment.

Nope, we can't do that because we can't force TikTok to make code changes. Banning it is the only solution.

Re: The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns

#265

Post by rodiger »

teh64 wrote: post #237
solardev wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You won't be able to tell when they're not following the rules.

Well the FBI seems able to tell, or else why are they alleging it poses a national security concern?

I think it's more of a "China has been known to conduct mass espionage/monitoring of its citizens and abroad. Given that known fact, TikTok poses a concern." Don't think there's hard proof they are doing nefarious things via TikTok.

Re: The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns

#266

Post by standardUser »

darkteflon wrote: post #12

Utterly ridiculous to allow TikTok to continue to operate in the current geopolitical climate. China is a surveillance autocracy and has been engaged in adversarial conduct against the West for years - including extensive psyops. Shut it down, yesterday. Build a local clone so that people can get their fix or whatever. China sure as shit doesn’t allow its citizens to cough up their personal information for algorithmi…

"engaged in adversarial conduct against the West for years - including extensive psyops."

And the US has an extensive and well-documented record of doing exactly this to other nations (and far, far worse). If we start a new Cold War every between every two nations that try to undermine each other we'll quickly run out of trading partners, which isn't going to work out too well for a preeminent trading nation (or it's people).

Re: The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns

#267

Post by SkyMarshal »

darkteflon wrote: post #12

Utterly ridiculous to allow TikTok to continue to operate in the current geopolitical climate. China is a surveillance autocracy and has been engaged in adversarial conduct against the West for years - including extensive psyops. Shut it down, yesterday. Build a local clone so that people can get their fix or whatever. China sure as shit doesn’t allow its citizens to cough up their personal information for algorithmi…

> Build a local clone so that people can get their fix or whatever.

Seems like the perfect startup and perfect timing for all the recently laid off Twitter folks.

Re: The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns

#268

Post by NickC25 »

glitchc wrote: post #256
NickC25 wrote: post #247

I have no idea if it's a legitimate security risk, but regardless, if China wants to play the game with us that they are currently playing (banning non-Chinese apps from their country) we have to play that game, too. It makes no sense to play the "we'll take the high road" approach with them. If they ban our applications and services in their country, we need to ban their applications and services in our country. Ful…

Sorry to hear you got shafted by Tsinghua U. But this is a race to the bottom. GenZ is our future. They will be in charge of our country and will make their own choices.

Yes, and GenZ needs to be educated on the geopolitical ramifications of a foreign power wielding control of a popular communications application.

Re: The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns

#269

Post by matthewdgreen »

II2II wrote: post #76

There are a couple of things we have to be careful of in these discussions: one is that the US has strong motivations for (economic) protectionism. We should be focussing on evidence of wrongdoing, not innuendo. The second is how the accusations are being made. Too much of it reeks of borderline racism and there seems to be an uptick in outright racism against Chinese people. Remember, it is acts of the Chinese gover…

I think economic protectionism is generally bad, but might be a reasonable response to similar moves on the part of other nations. I think this should not be conflated with the national security arguments (which aren't totally invalid, but may be overhyped to achieve a policy goal.)

Re: The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns

#270

Post by hoolabooladoola »

krolden wrote: post #236
vorpalhex wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the genocide of a people concerns us all.

You mean like the native Americans? Pretty sure that's still the largest scale, most drawn out genocide in the entire history of our species.

Lakota checking in to tell you that a basic reading of history would confirm that you’re pretty wrong.

Please don’t what-about the Uyghurs to Native American history because it’s disrespectful both ways, and minimizes their suffering. For all the conflict with Europeans, our historical experiences with them, painful as they may have been and remain, were much more nuanced and complicated than what is happening in China. I have also never met anyone native who thinks of our history as a genocide, and I’m involved in tribal politics.

Honestly even calling our history a genocide is a dramatic simplification that removes our agency (all too common in non-native takes). We fought back and won some things, lost others. That’s not something you can say about victims of genocide.

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