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The case against the Twitter apology and our culture of performed remorse

newyorker.com

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Re: The case against the Twitter apology and our culture of performed remorse

#21

Post by _yb2s »

wernercd wrote: post #10

Apologizing to a mob never makes sense. You just make the other mob angry and most of the current mob doesn't think you're authentic anyways. Or, as the article says, "It was either not enough or, oh, my God, please stop.". Trying to placate a mob is pointless. Be authentic (apologize if you really mean it), otherwise stand your ground and stay still. The mob will move on eventually. They are fickle and easily distra…

Exactly, this integrity and sincerity is what is missing with this stuff. These people are apologizing out of fear, not because they feel it’s the right thing to do.

Re: The case against the Twitter apology and our culture of performed remorse

#22

Post by thinkingemote »

mjburgess wrote: post #4

Forgiveness as a kind of mourning makes sense, but is counter-intuitive. I think we've come to regard "forgiveness" as inevitably ending with reconsiliation. But perhaps, more often, it shouldnt. That is, forgiveness is how I see the other when I see them not as an enemy or friend, but as a tragic part of nature. I have moved on. Our ability to forgive has, perhaps, been distorted by the perception that it's an act o…

People may be slow to forgive as they may think it gives something to the other, a type of concession, an admission of something, something on one side of an equation.

But forgiveness mainly gives something to oneself not the other. It frees oneself from that hold over oneself.

Apologies, if they are expected, are expected within the frame of a transaction. But forgiveness which doesn't seek something from the other can be given without an apology.

The person who is forgiven doesn't need to know they are forgiven. Even if they are told, the feeling of freedom and the actual forgiveness comes before that.

Re: The case against the Twitter apology and our culture of performed remorse

#23

Post by tomek_ycomb »

mjburgess wrote: post #4

Forgiveness as a kind of mourning makes sense, but is counter-intuitive. I think we've come to regard "forgiveness" as inevitably ending with reconsiliation. But perhaps, more often, it shouldnt. That is, forgiveness is how I see the other when I see them not as an enemy or friend, but as a tragic part of nature. I have moved on. Our ability to forgive has, perhaps, been distorted by the perception that it's an act o…

>, various authors or variants of that quote (Iirc I heard it from Andrea Gibson poet).

Anyway, I thought the quote was in line with your "/I/ have moved on" phrasing.

Not sure I really agree with the rest of your statements about grief and forgiveness, nor that I understood all of your intend. But I love this quote and think about it sometimes, and it seems like it would vibe for your conception of forgiveness.

Re: The case against the Twitter apology and our culture of performed remorse

#25

Post by nonethewiser »

mjburgess wrote: post #4

Forgiveness as a kind of mourning makes sense, but is counter-intuitive. I think we've come to regard "forgiveness" as inevitably ending with reconsiliation. But perhaps, more often, it shouldnt. That is, forgiveness is how I see the other when I see them not as an enemy or friend, but as a tragic part of nature. I have moved on. Our ability to forgive has, perhaps, been distorted by the perception that it's an act o…

> That is, forgiveness is how I see the other when I see them not as an enemy or friend, but as a tragic part of nature.

This is the Christian conception, and I think it's a very helpful way to think about forgiveness.

Re: The case against the Twitter apology and our culture of performed remorse

#26

Post by seydor »

mattgreenrocks wrote: post #16

Whoever figures out a secular distillation of the concept of grace is going to be very, very successful in community-building. The lack of it is painfully apparent, and it offers something to both the accused and the accusers. Now, whether people actually want that from others in these cases, or are merely enjoying the use of power a little too much, is another discussion.

grace or forgiveness?

Re: The case against the Twitter apology and our culture of performed remorse

#27

Post by seydor »

themaninthedark wrote: post #6

An apology is useless if it is not accompanied by a change in behavior. Actually, worse than useless as it is an insult. I know what I am doing is wrong but I am not changing. Large public apologies are performance art.

Yes, and audiences love performance art. They don't even really hate the actor for what they did, they enjoy the vengeful feelings i guess. Everything is molded to please the public.

Re: The case against the Twitter apology and our culture of performed remorse

#29

Post by chitowneats »

seydor wrote: post #24

It's not a "culture" issue imho. The mainstream basically decided to promote those staged "apologies", signaling to other celebrities that they should act like that, and they did.

What the mainstream promotes is culture. Contemporary culture at the very least.

Re: The case against the Twitter apology and our culture of performed remorse

#30

Post by SamBam »

tomek_ycomb wrote: post #23
mjburgess wrote: post #4

Forgiveness as a kind of mourning makes sense, but is counter-intuitive. I think we've come to regard "forgiveness" as inevitably ending with reconsiliation. But perhaps, more often, it shouldnt. That is, forgiveness is how I see the other when I see them not as an enemy or friend, but as a tragic part of nature. I have moved on. Our ability to forgive has, perhaps, been distorted by the perception that it's an act o…

>, various authors or variants of that quote (Iirc I heard it from Andrea Gibson poet). Anyway, I thought the quote was in line with your "/I/ have moved on" phrasing. Not sure I really agree with the rest of your statements about grief and forgiveness, nor that I understood all of your intend. But I love this quote and think about it sometimes, and it seems like it would vibe for your conception of forgiveness.

What a great quote, thank you.
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