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The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns

npr.org

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Re: The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns

#71

Post by pjc50 »

mc32 wrote: post #63
2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1A was not written so that hostile foreign governments can flood your zone with shit.

It's interesting question. We have VoA or whatever. Would the FCC allow a VoRussia or VoChina radio transmitter in the US whose sole purpose was to push Chinese or Russian propaganda? Probably in a war declaration we could shut them down, but what about peacetime?

> Would the FCC allow a VoRussia or VoChina radio transmitter in the US whose sole purpose was to push Chinese or Russian propaganda?

I'm sure they already do? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RT_America was operating right up until the imposition of sanctions.

Re: The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns

#72

Post by encryptluks2 »

dahfizz wrote: post #29
weego wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US is a surveillance pseudo-democracy. The problem here being this time they can't insert themselves into the surveillance pipeline. They're not better or worse (unless you're fine with your own Govt surveilling you but not another state), just not the status quo.

This is absurd, frankly. "The US government collects taxes on US citizens, why not let China collect taxes on US citizens? Its the same." "The US government throws US citizens in jail, why not let Chine throw US citizens in jail? Its the same." Yeah, it would be great if the Federal government turned down their surveillance. That doesn't make it okay for China to run psy-ops against us.

I see a lot of US psyops and I'm an American. That is even more disturbing IMO. I'd expect it from a foreign nation but not my own country. Also, why can't we just make education about foreign influence part of our curriculum and national discussion. Why do we have to ban things like speech to protect people? That is borderline just becoming China-like in itself.

Re: The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns

#73

Post by the_only_law »

HlessClaudesman wrote: post #10
Reason077 wrote: post #2

Besides the obvious concerns about tracking/spying, TikTok has great potential as a propaganda tool to gain subtle influence over America's youth. For example, its algorithm could be tweaked to elevate content that is favourable to the Chinese Communist Party.

I think their strategy is more insidious than that. Chinese social media inside China is actively directing youth towards vigorous / productive / pedagogical endeavours, whereas ticktock outside China heavily promotes pointless endless innane naval gazing such as pranking, gaming, influencers etc. They seek to create a generation of feckless know nothings in The West.

> naval gazing such as pranking, gaming, influencers etc

Yes surely none of this existed in western entertainment before TikTok and was all concocted by the the Chinese in a grand conspiracy to bring down the US. At this point I’m trying to figure out who’s better at contrived cartoon supervillain plans according to HN: Musk or China.

Re: The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns

#74

Post by howmayiannoyyou »

weego wrote: post #22
darkteflon wrote: post #12

Utterly ridiculous to allow TikTok to continue to operate in the current geopolitical climate. China is a surveillance autocracy and has been engaged in adversarial conduct against the West for years - including extensive psyops. Shut it down, yesterday. Build a local clone so that people can get their fix or whatever. China sure as shit doesn’t allow its citizens to cough up their personal information for algorithmi…

The US is a surveillance pseudo-democracy. The problem here being this time they can't insert themselves into the surveillance pipeline. They're not better or worse (unless you're fine with your own Govt surveilling you but not another state), just not the status quo.

Surveillance isn't the primary issue. INFLUENCE OPERATIONS is. China's ability to direct content to achieve their strategic goals, and to do so at a very granular level, is too great a risk. Its not the only property with this capability (cough, 4chan/pol/, cough), but its by far the largest.

Re: The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns

#76

Post by II2II »

There are a couple of things we have to be careful of in these discussions: one is that the US has strong motivations for (economic) protectionism. We should be focussing on evidence of wrongdoing, not innuendo.

The second is how the accusations are being made. Too much of it reeks of borderline racism and there seems to be an uptick in outright racism against Chinese people. Remember, it is acts of the Chinese government at issue here not the acts of people who have no ties to the Chinese government.

Re: The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns

#77

Post by uniqueuid »

devilbunny wrote: post #62
mromanuk wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't banning a social network undermine the democratic principles you mention?

No. The Constitution is not a suicide pact.

Wow, thanks! I didn't know this phrase [1], but it really nails the concept of self-balance in constitutional democracies.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Constitution_is_not_a_suic...

Re: The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns

#78

Post by nemo44x »

HlessClaudesman wrote: post #10
Reason077 wrote: post #2

Besides the obvious concerns about tracking/spying, TikTok has great potential as a propaganda tool to gain subtle influence over America's youth. For example, its algorithm could be tweaked to elevate content that is favourable to the Chinese Communist Party.

I think their strategy is more insidious than that. Chinese social media inside China is actively directing youth towards vigorous / productive / pedagogical endeavours, whereas ticktock outside China heavily promotes pointless endless innane naval gazing such as pranking, gaming, influencers etc. They seek to create a generation of feckless know nothings in The West.

> They seek to create a generation of feckless know nothings in The West.

We’re doing that just fine on our own.

Re: The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns

#79

Post by samatman »

est wrote: post #45
karp773 wrote: post #20

The very fact that not a single western social network is permitted to operate in China is a sufficient reason to ban TikTok in America.

> not a single western social network You are wrong. Myspace works fine in China.

This is, rather, evidence (as though we needed it) that Myspace isn't a social network.

Re: The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns

#80

Post by mc32 »

pjc50 wrote: post #71
mc32 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting question. We have VoA or whatever. Would the FCC allow a VoRussia or VoChina radio transmitter in the US whose sole purpose was to push Chinese or Russian propaganda? Probably in a war declaration we could shut them down, but what about peacetime?

> Would the FCC allow a VoRussia or VoChina radio transmitter in the US whose sole purpose was to push Chinese or Russian propaganda? I'm sure they already do? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RT_America was operating right up until the imposition of sanctions.

Yeah, but that was more akin to the BBC or even Xinhua. I mean a specifically propagandist station like the VoA or RFE.

But that said, looks like all the Biden admin needs to do is set up some sanctions (for whatever reason) and put TT under that umbrella and voila!

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