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The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns

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Re: The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns

#61

Post by uniqueuid »

karp773 wrote: post #20

The very fact that not a single western social network is permitted to operate in China is a sufficient reason to ban TikTok in America.

That argument makes no sense, because we do not want to mirror other countries.

Instead, there are substantial arguments about freedom of speech and accountability. Even though they are messy, they are what we need to apply here because they are a legally binding framework that we built over decades.

By the way, I found Levitski and Ziblatt's book "How Democracies Die" [1] a pretty good treatment of these issues of balancing freedom of expression and democratic resilience.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_Democracies_Die

Re: The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns

#62

Post by devilbunny »

mromanuk wrote: post #31
uniqueuid wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This one's pretty simple: China is a totalitarian regime that is in direct conflict with western constitutional values. So if influence is aimed at democratic foundations, of course it's a bad thing.

Doesn't banning a social network undermine the democratic principles you mention?

No. The Constitution is not a suicide pact.

Re: The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns

#63

Post by mc32 »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #55
mc32 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're among the least protectionist -not to say we are not protectionist, but comparatively. Others have set the precedent for us. They need no examples or encouragement. That said, yes, the 1A implications are thorny.

1A was not written so that hostile foreign governments can flood your zone with shit.

It's interesting question. We have VoA or whatever.

Would the FCC allow a VoRussia or VoChina radio transmitter in the US whose sole purpose was to push Chinese or Russian propaganda?

Probably in a war declaration we could shut them down, but what about peacetime?

Re: The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns

#64

Post by bheadmaster »

pjc50 wrote: post #56
darkteflon wrote: post #12

Utterly ridiculous to allow TikTok to continue to operate in the current geopolitical climate. China is a surveillance autocracy and has been engaged in adversarial conduct against the West for years - including extensive psyops. Shut it down, yesterday. Build a local clone so that people can get their fix or whatever. China sure as shit doesn’t allow its citizens to cough up their personal information for algorithmi…

sigh can we not have targeted-by-nationality bans and instead have .. rules? If Tiktok the app is performing surveillance, ban surveillance by apps . All of them. Or make it technically impossible to escape its little sandbox, and let people have their entertainment.

But what about national security? Surveillance by _our_ guys is necessary!

Re: The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns

#66

Post by dylkil »

pjc50 wrote: post #56
darkteflon wrote: post #12

Utterly ridiculous to allow TikTok to continue to operate in the current geopolitical climate. China is a surveillance autocracy and has been engaged in adversarial conduct against the West for years - including extensive psyops. Shut it down, yesterday. Build a local clone so that people can get their fix or whatever. China sure as shit doesn’t allow its citizens to cough up their personal information for algorithmi…

sigh can we not have targeted-by-nationality bans and instead have .. rules? If Tiktok the app is performing surveillance, ban surveillance by apps . All of them. Or make it technically impossible to escape its little sandbox, and let people have their entertainment.

>ban surveillance by apps

if only

Re: The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns

#67

Post by samatman »

pjc50 wrote: post #56
darkteflon wrote: post #12

Utterly ridiculous to allow TikTok to continue to operate in the current geopolitical climate. China is a surveillance autocracy and has been engaged in adversarial conduct against the West for years - including extensive psyops. Shut it down, yesterday. Build a local clone so that people can get their fix or whatever. China sure as shit doesn’t allow its citizens to cough up their personal information for algorithmi…

sigh can we not have targeted-by-nationality bans and instead have .. rules? If Tiktok the app is performing surveillance, ban surveillance by apps . All of them. Or make it technically impossible to escape its little sandbox, and let people have their entertainment.

We should have rules that include forbidding any Chinese company from selling SaaS or social media until CCP takes the Great Firewall down. They've made a pariah internet and they should stay there.

Suit you? Suits me.

Re: The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns

#68

Post by dahfizz »

pjc50 wrote: post #60
dahfizz wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is absurd, frankly. "The US government collects taxes on US citizens, why not let China collect taxes on US citizens? Its the same." "The US government throws US citizens in jail, why not let Chine throw US citizens in jail? Its the same." Yeah, it would be great if the Federal government turned down their surveillance. That doesn't make it okay for China to run psy-ops against us.

https://www.newsy.com/stories/american-athlete-shares-experi... (and obviously if you're a US national in China you'll pay Chinese and US taxes, because of the weird extraterritorial taxation of the US)

Yes; you are pedantically correct, and missing the point entirely.

Re: The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns

#69

Post by marcusverus »

drcross wrote: post #33
darkteflon wrote: post #12

Utterly ridiculous to allow TikTok to continue to operate in the current geopolitical climate. China is a surveillance autocracy and has been engaged in adversarial conduct against the West for years - including extensive psyops. Shut it down, yesterday. Build a local clone so that people can get their fix or whatever. China sure as shit doesn’t allow its citizens to cough up their personal information for algorithmi…

Trump tried this and had to back down due to it being an unpopular decision. https://edition.cnn.com/2020/08/06/politics/trump-executive-...

To clarify: Trump issued the ban, but it was Biden who backed down and rescinded it.

https://www.theverge.com/2021/6/9/22525953/biden-tiktok-wech...

Re: The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns

#70

Post by mmmlinux »

drcross wrote: post #33
darkteflon wrote: post #12

Utterly ridiculous to allow TikTok to continue to operate in the current geopolitical climate. China is a surveillance autocracy and has been engaged in adversarial conduct against the West for years - including extensive psyops. Shut it down, yesterday. Build a local clone so that people can get their fix or whatever. China sure as shit doesn’t allow its citizens to cough up their personal information for algorithmi…

Trump tried this and had to back down due to it being an unpopular decision. https://edition.cnn.com/2020/08/06/politics/trump-executive-...

I cant imagine how unpopular it must have been to make him back down on something.
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