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How safe is ayahuasca? Large-scale study explores

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Re: How safe is ayahuasca? Large-scale study explores

#171

Post by pmoriarty »

Trasmatta wrote: post #16

Bad trips are a real risk with all psychedelics. I don't like the attitude in psychedelic communities that there's "no such thing as a bad trip, only a challenging one". I had a couple bad trips. It felt like living in hell for a literal eternity. It's almost impossible to describe the agony that the human mind is capable of experiencing. It's absurd how much suffering the human mind can experience. The main message…

"The main message I got out of those experiences was that everything I learned in hell could have been learned in other, safer, ways."

I learned way more in my bad trips than in my good ones. The good ones were fun, but pretty superficial. The bad ones forced me to face my shit that I might never had faced if I hadn't done psychedelics.

Going through pain and suffering has also made me a lot more empathetic to the pain and suffering of others. I know what it's like to be disoriented, afraid, and in incredible agony, so when I see someone going through something similar I can relate and have a lot of empathy for them. If I had never gone through something similar, I probably wouldn't.

Re: How safe is ayahuasca? Large-scale study explores

#172

Post by pmoriarty »

nikisweeting wrote: post #157
boppo1 wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an example what I dislike about proponents of psychedelics. The condescending tone and appeals to "science" when a scientific method is nowhere to be found.

"nowhere to be found" Seems you don't hang out on Psychonautwiki, r/researchchemicals, MAPS.org, or any of the highly scientific drug communities going about deliberate, skeptical research in the space. Just because you don't look for them doesn't mean they aren't there. If your only experience is hanging out with fried deadhead hippies I can see how you might reach this conclusion, but the space is broad and deep an…

Not to mention Johns Hopkins and many other prestigious research universities which are studying psychedelics.

Many of these highly respected researchers are psychedelic advocates.

Re: How safe is ayahuasca? Large-scale study explores

#173

Post by pmoriarty »

BatteryMountain wrote: post #136
Trasmatta wrote: post #16

Bad trips are a real risk with all psychedelics. I don't like the attitude in psychedelic communities that there's "no such thing as a bad trip, only a challenging one". I had a couple bad trips. It felt like living in hell for a literal eternity. It's almost impossible to describe the agony that the human mind is capable of experiencing. It's absurd how much suffering the human mind can experience. The main message…

And the problem with these Eternity in Hell experiences, is that it can permanently traumatize you and embed (new) triggers for things like anxiety/panic attacks and other stress disorders. It can feel truly real, truly horrifying, in a place where time don't exist, where you don't know words or language. That kind of experience can change a person, and not always in a good way.

Yes, they have the potential for harm... which is why they should be treated with the utmost respect, with serious preparation, and ideally under the guidance of a trained psychedelic therapist who you like and trust.

Re: How safe is ayahuasca? Large-scale study explores

#174

Post by Demotioo »

vga805 wrote: post #70

Ayahuasca ceremonies are among the most profound, cherished experiences of my life. I prepare for months before partaking in them to make sure my emotional, physical, and spiritual health is in a good place. And I can't imagine taking this drug without being under the care of experienced guides. I also wouldn't recommend it for anyone except those who really desire to push the limits of their mind. Some trips have fe…

Next time record your outer shell while doing this. You might discover that all of this is in your head.

All arguments made about god like things are true here too.

Things like: why would anyone care about us humans specifically.

Why would they be 'elves'.

Plenty of 'normal' people believe in very stupid things like loch Ness etc.

We know no one who just changed physical laws.

Also you do sound like you prepare yourself, guess who aligns himself to those types of stories? Exactly you do.

You prepare yourself by traveling there and doing it with some old dude in some jungle.

You could just do Aya in your lifing room tbh.

I personally would try to avoid assuming this is more than it is. This might become a dangerous brain and reality killing self journey instead of something crazy to experience.

For me personally LSD told me not that there is something else out there but allowed me to feel and realize how fragile my brain can be. It helps me to have more empathy for brain illnesses.

It also stabiled my life by knowing the normal boring world is just what it is: real. I still need to work and earn money and fees myself even after a trip etc.

Re: How safe is ayahuasca? Large-scale study explores

#175

Post by prox »

boppo1 wrote: post #142
prox wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People I know who have done Ayahuasca seem to me have had adverse effects on their mental health. Not the one timers, but going regularly. It’s subtle, but it seems to me they got worse regulating their emotions and rationality. Unfortunately this study is based on respondents so unlikely to uncover such a pattern.

I have also observed this.

Interesting. I wonder if it is being studied as well.

Re: How safe is ayahuasca? Large-scale study explores

#176

Post by pmoriarty »

Trasmatta wrote: post #47
lend000 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you elaborate on what exactly you experienced (and your takeaways) from your bad trip? Do you feel like set and setting or your previous mental state going into the trip caused the bad trip?

> Could you elaborate on what exactly you experienced (and your takeaways) from your bad trip? I experienced the worst pain I could ever imagine, felt my consciousness stretched to fill the infinity of space, and was then convinced this was my eternal state, with no possibility of escape. > Do you feel like set and setting or your previous mental state going into the trip caused the bad trip? It did. Set and setting…

Part of the set is who is there, and if there's someone there who's experienced (or, ideally even trained in psychedelic therapy) and who you like and trust, they can help guide you and support you.

I suspect a lot of these bad trip reports and reports of adverse consequences long afterwards are by people who tripped recreationally, in poor settings, with little preparation, and little if any support during the trip, and no integration afterwards.

Re: How safe is ayahuasca? Large-scale study explores

#177

Post by pmoriarty »

RugnirViking wrote: post #110
psychstudio wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are bound to be wild psychoactive mushrooms near you. Do some research and then do some bushwalking (or hiking if you prefer). Mushroom hunting is cathartic. https://www.shroomery.org/8461/Which-psilocybin-mushrooms-gr...

never taken mushrooms but been mushroom foraging for food purposes and well, it has to be said: be very, very careful with this stuff. Pick the wrong mushroom and it can and will kill you, and it may be very, very difficult to distinguish the right one and the wrong one. Do things like spore prints, and read books carefully with every specimen. Don't want folks getting hurt

I can strongly recommend Alan Rockefeller's fantastic talks on psilocybin mushroom identification: [1] [2]

[1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcL-7u80kjs

[2] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pInqVRRva7M

Re: How safe is ayahuasca? Large-scale study explores

#178

Post by pmoriarty »

quickthrower2 wrote: post #20
willhinsa wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is chemotherapy Stockholm syndrome? Sometimes the medicine has to be pretty bad to fight off something worse!

What disease is ayahuasca fighting off? And specifically what is the the clinical benefit of the vomit stage?

"What disease is ayahuasca fighting off? And specifically what is the the clinical benefit of the vomit stage?"

I have heard people describe ayahuasca purging as getting rid of mental and/or physical toxins... as getting rid of depression, emotional/psychological baggage, medical maladies, etc..

Re: How safe is ayahuasca? Large-scale study explores

#179

Post by pmoriarty »

alexvoda wrote: post #159
vga805 wrote: post #70

Ayahuasca ceremonies are among the most profound, cherished experiences of my life. I prepare for months before partaking in them to make sure my emotional, physical, and spiritual health is in a good place. And I can't imagine taking this drug without being under the care of experienced guides. I also wouldn't recommend it for anyone except those who really desire to push the limits of their mind. Some trips have fe…

>Some trips have felt like mystical, blissful experiences. Others have felt like an eternity in hell. You never know what you're going to get and you have to be ready for it. I wonder if the variability in experience isn't partially because it is a plant concoction allowing some substitutes: > Ayahuasca[1] is commonly made from the Banisteriopsis caapi vine, the Psychotria viridis shrub or a substitute, and other ing…

"It seems to me that it would be hard to get a repeatable dosage and combination of the active ingredients this way."

Not only that, different ayahuasca "shamen" tend to have different recipes for making it. There are no standardized dosages and no quality control beyond what the individual brewing it chooses (or not) to do.

Re: How safe is ayahuasca? Large-scale study explores

#180

Post by koonsolo »

sph wrote: post #128
koonsolo wrote: post #120

I always find it surprising that so many people here have such a positive attitude towards drugs. I never touched it, am very happy about it, and hope my kids stay far away from it. I know people who did all kinds of drugs, and nothing positive ever came out of that. Sorry that's just my opinion.

"I don't know much about something, here's my opinion." The fact that you don't distinguish between categories of drugs is, no offence, a major indicator of ignorance in the subject matter. Hallucinogens are not stimulants are not depressants are not dissociatives are not alcohol. If you mean "illegal drugs", do you really think that the objective, scientific threshold between harmful and harmless is legality? You ar…

Whatever you recommend to take, I'm sure one of the people I know took it. Did it improve their already normal life? I highly doubt it.

I'm not discussing that when you have an illness or mental problem that drugs might help (or which drugs). But just take it because somehow it would "enhance" your life... still need to see proof of that. Most of the "enhancement" that I saw went to other direction.

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