How safe is ayahuasca? Large-scale study explores • Hacker News Board

Re: How safe is ayahuasca? Large-scale study explores

#151

Post by pmoriarty » Fri, Nov 18, 2022, 10:23 AM UTC

ohgodplsno wrote: post #109

vga805 wrote: post #70

Ayahuasca ceremonies are among the most profound, cherished experiences of my life. I prepare for months before partaking in them to make sure my emotional, physical, and spiritual health is in a good place. And I can't imagine taking this drug without being under the care of experienced guides. I also wouldn't recommend it for anyone except those who really desire to push the limits of their mind. Some trips have fe…

> I prepare for months before partaking in them And here is why it is one of the most profound things in your life. Not saying that ayahuesca and other psychedelics do not provide you with a different outlook on life, but by sacralizing this ritual, making your life focused on it and therefore massively overemphasising its importance. You could have the exact same feelings with LSD if you hyped yourself up for months…

Even without any preparation, many people still have some of the most profound experiences of their life on psychedelics, comparable in significance (in their words) to the birth of a child or the death of a parent.

This has been shown in research time and time again.

Re: How safe is ayahuasca? Large-scale study explores

#152

Post by boppo1 » Fri, Nov 18, 2022, 10:23 AM UTC

DenisM wrote: post #86

Trasmatta wrote: post #16

Bad trips are a real risk with all psychedelics. I don't like the attitude in psychedelic communities that there's "no such thing as a bad trip, only a challenging one". I had a couple bad trips. It felt like living in hell for a literal eternity. It's almost impossible to describe the agony that the human mind is capable of experiencing. It's absurd how much suffering the human mind can experience. The main message…

You had a couple of bad trips? They way you describe them it was awfully bad, and yet you did it more than once?

I fractured my leg the first time I went skiing. I went skiing again the next season without a second thought because it seemed like I could have fun if I was careful to do it right.

Re: How safe is ayahuasca? Large-scale study explores

#153

Post by pmoriarty » Fri, Nov 18, 2022, 10:28 AM UTC

devwastaken wrote: post #106

vga805 wrote: post #70

Ayahuasca ceremonies are among the most profound, cherished experiences of my life. I prepare for months before partaking in them to make sure my emotional, physical, and spiritual health is in a good place. And I can't imagine taking this drug without being under the care of experienced guides. I also wouldn't recommend it for anyone except those who really desire to push the limits of their mind. Some trips have fe…

The mind is the source of all senses. Is an Ayahuasca trip hallucination any different in reality than say schizophrenia hallucinations? If there truly are beings of other advanced "planes", and they are communicating, why are they only doing it in vague ways that mimic dreams? And why is that information never something novel? If they're beings more advanced than us then we should be able to ask and get answers. Sam…

Measuring and evaluating factual claims these entities make is only one way of approaching them.

Some people can forgive themselves or their parents on psychedelics, can completely come out a different person, can have their cripplingly severe depression cured..

Can these be fairly described as "hallucinations"? A better word is needed.

Re: How safe is ayahuasca? Large-scale study explores

#154

Post by boppo1 » Fri, Nov 18, 2022, 10:29 AM UTC

psychstudio wrote: post #53

no_butterscotch wrote: post #43

Is it similar to "shrooms"? I was considered traveling from San Francisco to Oregon or Colorado (?) where I think psychedelic mushrooms were legalized and you don't need to "know people" to get them. I've wanted to try psychedelics for a while, I haven't done them before. Unless Salvia counts.

There are bound to be wild psychoactive mushrooms near you. Do some research and then do some bushwalking (or hiking if you prefer). Mushroom hunting is cathartic. https://www.shroomery.org/8461/Which-psilocybin-mushrooms-gr...

This is a good way to maim or kill yourself.

Re: How safe is ayahuasca? Large-scale study explores

#155

Post by nikisweeting » Fri, Nov 18, 2022, 10:31 AM UTC

boppo1 wrote: post #139

nikisweeting wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have the same approach. I think given how many smart, rational people I know say there is something to purging I'm inclined to try it once, but once I have that experience I think I'm likely to revert to thinking it's stockholm syndrome for long-term exploration / future trips.

I have not taken ayahuasca, but have vomited on acid. I believe your latter conclusion is correct. Psychedelics are overrated by those who take them.

I think psychedelics hit the salience receptor (5HT2A) and so everything experienced on them feels artificially meaningful. It takes unpacking and skepticism to figure out which experiences actually hold merit and which are noise. "Enhanced meaningfulness" is a useful tool if that's what you're lacking in your life, but a dangerous one if you let it inflate every idea you have while impaired.

This is why I like dissociatives more, they don't artificially inflate the sense of meaningfulness and don't tank your working memory so you can explore deeper and wider with more skepticism during the trip. If only MXE still existed...

Re: How safe is ayahuasca? Large-scale study explores

#156

Post by nikisweeting » Fri, Nov 18, 2022, 10:37 AM UTC

boppo1 wrote: post #133

koonsolo wrote: post #120

I always find it surprising that so many people here have such a positive attitude towards drugs. I never touched it, am very happy about it, and hope my kids stay far away from it. I know people who did all kinds of drugs, and nothing positive ever came out of that. Sorry that's just my opinion.

This shouldn't be so downvoted. I've taken a variety of psychedelics, and net effect on my life was never more than an entertaining and/or blissful and/or frightening hallucination. They certainly felt profound, even months or years after, but if I really look at my life, they amount to nothing more than an anecdote. I know plenty of people who take/took them very seriously. None of them are particularly wise, althou…

This maybe your conclusion but stating it as base truth is a pretty uninformed take.

DNA was discovered on LSD, among countless other major works in math, science, literature, CS, and other fields.

Just Google "things discovered on drugs" or "famous/accomplished people that took drugs", the list is loooong.

Re: How safe is ayahuasca? Large-scale study explores

#157

Post by nikisweeting » Fri, Nov 18, 2022, 10:46 AM UTC

boppo1 wrote: post #148

IIAOPSW wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not denying that its possible to lose all concept of a "face" or even know what "is" is and to only be left with pain, suffering, spinning and eternity. On the contrary, I find it to be an immensely scientifically valuable observation that you lost all concept of a face, didn't know what "is" is and only knew pain, suffering, spinning and eternity. Just knowing that you end up with that experience and other peopl…

This is an example what I dislike about proponents of psychedelics. The condescending tone and appeals to "science" when a scientific method is nowhere to be found.

"nowhere to be found"

Seems you don't hang out on Psychonautwiki, r/researchchemicals, MAPS.org, or any of the highly scientific drug communities going about deliberate, skeptical research in the space.

Just because you don't look for them doesn't mean they aren't there. If your only experience is hanging out with fried deadhead hippies I can see how you might reach this conclusion, but the space is broad and deep and many other types of people approach and research it.

Re: How safe is ayahuasca? Large-scale study explores

#158

Post by pmoriarty » Fri, Nov 18, 2022, 10:49 AM UTC

comfypotato wrote: post #138

This article doesn’t give the relevant attention to risks of more serious, long term, psychiatric conditions. Responsible use is key. DMT and other common psychedelics have been linked to emerging schizophrenia, bipolar, etc. [1]. The link is particularly strong when “large-dose trips” are taken in quick succession or generally without weeks/months in between. I personally broke my brain with irresponsible use of psy…

No post body was provided.

Re: How safe is ayahuasca? Large-scale study explores

#159

Post by alexvoda » Fri, Nov 18, 2022, 10:50 AM UTC

vga805 wrote: post #70

Ayahuasca ceremonies are among the most profound, cherished experiences of my life. I prepare for months before partaking in them to make sure my emotional, physical, and spiritual health is in a good place. And I can't imagine taking this drug without being under the care of experienced guides. I also wouldn't recommend it for anyone except those who really desire to push the limits of their mind. Some trips have fe…

>Some trips have felt like mystical, blissful experiences. Others have felt like an eternity in hell. You never know what you're going to get and you have to be ready for it.

I wonder if the variability in experience isn't partially because it is a plant concoction allowing some substitutes:

> Ayahuasca[1] is commonly made from the Banisteriopsis caapi vine, the Psychotria viridis shrub or a substitute, and other ingredients including Justicia pectoralis,[5] one of the Brugmansia (especially Brugmansia insignis and Brugmansia versicolor, or a hybrid breed) or Datura species,[6] and mapacho (Nicotiana rustica).

It seems to me that it would be hard to get a repeatable dosage and combination of the active ingredients this way.

Re: How safe is ayahuasca? Large-scale study explores

#160

Post by Tenoke » Fri, Nov 18, 2022, 10:53 AM UTC

GaryPalmer wrote: post #84

vga805 wrote: post #70

Ayahuasca ceremonies are among the most profound, cherished experiences of my life. I prepare for months before partaking in them to make sure my emotional, physical, and spiritual health is in a good place. And I can't imagine taking this drug without being under the care of experienced guides. I also wouldn't recommend it for anyone except those who really desire to push the limits of their mind. Some trips have fe…

I've never done Ayahuasca and I am still leaning more to the side that these beings are NOT created by your mind. These experiences are too structured and follow simmilar spiritual themes. If these substances would simply fire random neurons in a brain you would expect more of a delirious/deluded and dream-like state. Also, I think there was some study that showed that psychedelics acutally reduce brain activity inst…

>If these substances would simply fire random neurons in a brain you would expect more of a delirious/deluded and dream-like state.

They don't fire completely random neurons. All drugs have some consistent(ish) effects. Among other things MDMA is more likely to activate empathy-related mechanisms, (some) cannabis is more likely to activate tiredness-related mechanisms and DMT is more likely to affect entity recognition and related mechanisms.

>That entity actually asked you a very valid question. Why do you need to explain it away?

Because generally it's a good habit to have true beliefs. In this case asking yourself might've been better after the experience but the habit itself is good to have and deluding yourself even after the fact is bad.