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Z-library founders arrested in Argentina

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Re: Z-library founders arrested in Argentina

#421
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's 'disgusting' to suggest others should have to labour for you for free - and suggesting 'removing money from the issue would solve' issues is more than naive, it's glib. IP is not 'corporate protectionism'. The entire system absolutely depends on it, moreover, the vast majority of IP holders are very small entities. Particularly in this case, authors. The internet is actually a greatly liberating opportunity for…

Yes, indeed, government-mandated monopolies are really the best way to make sure the "creative works" of fundamentally indeterminable values get paid and the "free-market" is upheld /s. This moronic notion that IP somehow encourages creativity is so delusional it's not even funny. Did Michelangelo and Shakespeare need copyrights to their works to make money? Have thinkers and authors who contributed most to human int…

This is objectively and demonstratively wrong; the lurid ad hominem only adds to embarrassment.

If 'money was not involved' then Shakespeare, Michelangelo et. al. would not have made most of their works.

Moreover, you've used two examples of artists creating physical things for money, whereupon the very notion of 'IP' is not hugely relevant.

Obviously, people need an income to survive, and most great works require incredible investment of time, labour, materials etc..

The Sistine Chapel and The Statue of David - were both commissioned aka 'commercial works', and the works of those artists (along with Bach, Beethoven, and innumerable composers and artists since the dawn of time) are paid for by the Church, state officials, private organizations, or wealthy individuals. Only more recently from the public purse (Universities and most research institutions were socialized in the late 20th century).

If the Opera del Duomo / Florence Cathedral did not pay for Michelangelo - it would not exist. It was their idea in the first place.

Shakespeare was a populist playwright - if he did not entertain paying audiences at The Globe - most of his works would never have existed.

Even the Eiffel Tower - a magnificent centrepiece to the city of Paris, was almost entirely a commercial project.

Nobody is suggesting that 'creative works' ought to be inherently limited by IP, as I directly indicated in my point.

Nobody is suggesting that IP and other commercial aspects are primary drivers of creative impetus.

Nobody is suggesting that people would 'not do' at some creative work without being paid.

Nobody is suggesting that some kinds of information don't belong inherently in the public domain.

However - if people are not able to be compensated for their works, then only a tiny fraction of creative work will be done.

'Journalism' is a fairly important industry, and they've come under incredible duress due to the proliferation of information, there are many benefits from that, however, the lack of professional journalists is on the whole, a bad thing. Without some form of IP basis it would likely be impossible for them to exist.

The entire entertainment and sports industries would mostly cease to exist without IP, and even most non-fiction works would not be authored. Most productions, especially those involving more than one person are involved, such as film or TV, can only move froward knowing they will have a material income. If publishing were really some kind of toxic businesses grabbing all of the surpluses then a lot of people would be doing it. Clearly, that's not the case. The MBA's are flocking to the Wall Street and Valley, not to the Publishing Industry.

That a lot of content out there is 'not very good' is a bit besides the point, it's not your right to tell people how they want to be entertained.

If you want to see what a world would look like without IP rights, visit the National Film Board of Canada and contemplate that's pretty much all that would exist: the totality of entertainment. They do a few good bits, but most of it is frankly not very good (as evidenced by the complete lack of interest in this content). And that would be all of your Netflix/Disney/ESPN etc. put together.

There's always room to debate about IP rights obviously, but what's shocking is how ostensibly intelligent people can't grasp how foundational IP rights are.

Re: Z-library founders arrested in Argentina

#422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What people fail to realize is that ebooks sometimes cost libraries more money than physical books. The libraries buy them with cost of degradation in mind, so after x number of lends, they have to repurchase the book in order to keep making it available to their patrons. This is how they're able to make an agreement with the publisher in order to legally provide you with a digital lending library.

IMO (having worked at a public library) the vast majority of inventory is donated second-hand books.

But for ebooks there is no such thing as second hand.

Re: Z-library founders arrested in Argentina

#423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I'm thinking wrong but I expected digital editions of books to be like $3 or something since there are no printing/shipping costs of the equivalent printed book. In the old analog world, authors might expect 15% of gross sales. You figure the publisher needed the 85% to cover printing, shipping of the physical book. (Oh, and they should make a profit there too.) But if you no longer have to deal with pulp, I wo…

Download video games have the same issue. same price as physical release, cant resell it, never goes on sale, still the same price it started at 4 years later when a physical copy is 50% discounted. Already have a physical copy? no you cant download it.

Physical copy degrades over time and can be destroyed or lost. Download can't.

Re: Z-library founders arrested in Argentina

#424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> China, Cuba, and Russia would be the ideal choices if you're on the run from US authorities. (this is specific to Z-library) Russia is out. Some books on the platform directly contradicts government ideals, and it seems that the operators aren't willing to filter it out. China might be a safe case, but recently they have cared for IP (at least for literary things, industrial processes are another matter) because th…

> Russia is out. Some books on the platform directly contradicts government ideals, and it seems that the operators aren't willing to filter it out. Any source on this specific claim (ie. not Russian censorship writ large)? I get that Russia is unpopular right now, but is this just conjecture?

Good question. It's not really about the war, it's more its negative perception of LGBT+ (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_gay_propaganda_law). This is not speculative, it is currently applicable to children, and as of this comment the Duma is working to expand this to even adults.

Also, generally information critical to the government, information on suicide, information on banned substances (this is the official reason why the Russian Wikipedia is banned), and information on making bombs and adjacent terror-related devices is also controlled, but I believe Z-library (and LibGen) don't host much of it.

Re: Z-library founders arrested in Argentina

#425
post #15

IIRC Z-library is a LibGen mirror that is faster than other mirrors but is also much more monetized with more ads, limited free downloads, and premium plans. Something else weird about this story is why did they move to a country that has an extradition agreement with the US? There are plenty of countries that would ignore US pressure to arrest them.

If you have no idea what you're talking about, post your comment as a question instead of a statement full of inaccurate misconceptions

Could you expand on what's inaccurate? I have honestly been very confused about all this Z-Library news because it struck me as being... well, a profit-motivated knockoff of libgen. With the number of users it has I assume it offers advantages I don't know about?

Re: Z-library founders arrested in Argentina

#426

Me and my colleagues will be affected by the end of Z library and co related projects. Here in Brazil and for sure in most second and third world countries, people don't have money to spend in books. You can argue that people can go to the library, but in most cases it's even expensive to take a bus or taxi even a Uber. I'm a law student at an university in brazil. Law books are really expensive. Even though my unive…

Even if you ignore money sometimes a book just isn't available to purchase.

Re: Z-library founders arrested in Argentina

#428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreciate your sentiment, and trust me I really do want to support people like your friend, but no I literally do not have any money for recreational activities (and if I did I would buy a videogame or boardgame because it would last longer). I make $13.50 / h (which is above minimum wage here in Arizona) and go to school full-time. Rent is $1,000 (absolute cheapest I have found in my college town), groceries are…

If you can't afford to purchase it, and you can't acquire it by alternative legal means, then (ethically) you just don't get to enjoy it. Sorry. There are lots of things I want that I can't afford, either.

There are no objective ethics. It's an open problem.

There's a whole lot of words to be said about that, but it's hardly worth discussion because ultimately the result would be wasted breath.

Anyway, the sphere of economics is the least ethical domain of humanity there is. My dollar is not equal to your dollar, and our dollars aren't equal to Musk or Bezos. We pretend that is the case. There never were and never will be equivocality in exchange unless it's one idea for another.

Re: Z-library founders arrested in Argentina

#429
post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO (having worked at a public library) the vast majority of inventory is donated second-hand books.

But for ebooks there is no such thing as second hand.

If I give a friend a copy of a DRM‐free copyrighted ebook, delete all of my own copies, and he pays me, isn’t that equivalent?

It may be impractical to verify that all my copies are gone, but is there any reason it wouldn’t hold up under first sale doctrine?

Any 17 U.S.C. § 109(d) experts in the house?

Re: Z-library founders arrested in Argentina

#430

I know this won't be a popular take on HN, but while I can understand and to a certain extent sympathize with pirating movies (the intentional friction and arbitrary geographic limitations on access imposed by the multinational movie-industry conglomerates), I can't see stealing some poor author's work in the same light. Sure, people get hung-up about DRM (which can easily be removed by widely-accessible tools), but…

The price spike on comics and graphic novels after the comiXology acquisition by Amazon is over 150%...

They removed the DRM‐free download option too.
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