FTX used corporate funds to purchase employee homes, new filing shows • Hacker News Board

Re: FTX used corporate funds to purchase employee homes, new filing shows

#261

Post by oblio » Thu, Nov 17, 2022, 9:17 PM UTC

TuringNYC wrote: post #224

alfalfasprout wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which require compliance with them. If you work at a company that cares to actually comply they will. I luckily work somewhere where it's taken seriously. But it's shockingly easy not to and auditors couldn't possibly catch all of the instances of non-compliance

>> But it's shockingly easy not to and auditors couldn't possibly catch all of the instances of non-compliance Regulations are usually backwards looking. So at least we never get Enron/GlobalCrossing/etc again. Then another waves of crises happen, and we get new regulations. So Fannie/Freddie happened in 2004-2007 and we got brightline guidance and application of FAS91 and EITF-9920. So then AIG/Lehman/Bear happened…

> The regulation stacks upon regulation, but I think this is good.

The correct way to think about it is scammers versus law makers.

Scammers are both trying to scam and also to blend in.

So it's hard at first to draw lines.

Them the lines burst onto the scene, when scammers become obvious.

So law makers write that up, and scammers have to find something new.

Re: FTX used corporate funds to purchase employee homes, new filing shows

#262

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Nov 17, 2022, 9:24 PM UTC

jerf wrote: post #54

moneycantbuy wrote: post #28

how did ftx successfully raise so much vc money recently? do these top vc firms do no due diligence?

That's one theory. Of course, given the depth of financial depravity on display here and the incredible thinness of the financial defense, one must also entertain the theory that they did do the due diligence, they were aware of how dangerous this was, and they invested anyhow for other reasons. And that those reasons are probably not good. There have been many cases where companies go to great lengths to do accounti…

[deleted]

Re: FTX used corporate funds to purchase employee homes, new filing shows

#263

Post by jdhn » Thu, Nov 17, 2022, 9:24 PM UTC

unmole wrote: post #15

testplzignore wrote: post #7

I would guess that the accounting firm that did the audit will be going the way of Arthur Andersen after the Enron scandal. And how many of their clients also have "interesting" financials?

> The FTX Group received audit opinions on consolidated financial statements for two of the Silos – the WRS Silo and the Dotcom Silo – for the period ended December 31, 2021. The audit firm for the WRS Silo, Armanino LLP, was a firm with which I am professionally familiar. The audit firm for the Dotcom Silo was Prager Metis, a firm with which I am not familiar and whose website indicates that they are the “first-ever…

>whose website indicates that they are the “first-ever CPA firm to officially open its Metaverse headquarters in the metaverse platform Decentraland.

The truth really is stranger than fiction.

Re: FTX used corporate funds to purchase employee homes, new filing shows

#264

Post by pessimizer » Thu, Nov 17, 2022, 9:25 PM UTC

HDThoreaun wrote: post #159

pessimizer wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That its community idealized and gathered around a man with no moral center who thought their entire movement was both a joke and a way to avoid scrutiny for his ongoing frauds. That, at the least, gives an indication that its intellectual underpinnings are not solid.

SBF got tons of pushback in the EA community. He gave jobs to some of the actual thought leaders so they tried to give him some credit, but there are tons and tons of posts on the EA forum about how Sam's extreme focus on long termism made EA too easy to meme on, and even more posts about how his political shenanigans were likely to cause major issues for the movement.

These are the sketchy intellectual underpinnings I was mentioning. It's less an intellectual endeavor than a small rich white guy social club. Having a little money and hanging out in EA circles means I might get the ear of somebody with a lot of money; especially if I can somehow fit my elevator pitch into their MCU dreams.

I'm a believer that altruism should be as effective as possible, but there's little crossover between that and what most Effective Altruists are saying and doing. They seem to largely be either using money for direct world poverty alleviation (usually a very good thing, unless it has second-order effects) which is what gets mentioned (you know, goats or wells, nothing new), or using it as an excuse to waste money on their own idiosyncratic libertarian sci-fi fantasies but disguised as charity i.e. secular Scientologists.

Re: FTX used corporate funds to purchase employee homes, new filing shows

#265

Post by CharlieDigital » Thu, Nov 17, 2022, 9:26 PM UTC

alfalfasprout wrote: post #203

muglug wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, which is why the US Congress added a whole bunch of new regulations (Sarbanes-Oxley) to prevent future Enrons.

Which require compliance with them. If you work at a company that cares to actually comply they will. I luckily work somewhere where it's taken seriously. But it's shockingly easy not to and auditors couldn't possibly catch all of the instances of non-compliance

I never look at laws and regulations as prevention just like a 55MPH speed limit sign or "Drug Free School Zone" doesn't prevent people from breaking said regulations.

It just means that GIVEN that there is a law, WHEN it is found to be broken, there are DEFINED rules of accountability and punishment.

Re: FTX used corporate funds to purchase employee homes, new filing shows

#266

Post by tedunangst » Thu, Nov 17, 2022, 9:31 PM UTC

jaywalk wrote: post #258

tedunangst wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's always the "next level" explanation for fraud, but how and why? What did Sequoia get out of this? Who's giving them dirty money?

It isn't necessarily that Sequoia (or any of the other VCs) had dirty money to launder. It could have also been that they wanted to use clean money for unclean purposes. To be clear: I'm just letting my mind wander in response to your question, not saying that's what happened.

I heard George Soros gave $200m to Sequoia to give to FTX to give to antifa to smuggle yellow cake disguised as children's pronouns.

Re: FTX used corporate funds to purchase employee homes, new filing shows

#267

Post by spaceman_2020 » Thu, Nov 17, 2022, 9:33 PM UTC

There's billions missing. Investments in non-crypto assets that are not on the books and have no clear paper trail.

It increasingly looks like FTX was a money laundering operation.

Re: FTX used corporate funds to purchase employee homes, new filing shows

#268

Post by snapcaster » Thu, Nov 17, 2022, 9:33 PM UTC

TheAlchemist wrote: post #129

How can anybody be surprised ? The 2 biggest players - Tether and Binance are much worse and still very well alive. Both are several times bigger (on paper) than FTX. Binance is already banned in most countries and without headquarters. Do anybody believes they have a proper gouvernance ? Tether was proved to lie about it réserves several times, recently started publishing attestations about reserves - attestations t…

I assume tether is mostly propped up by illegal businesses. I don't hear it discussed much, but what if they do actually have all the money it's just that they got it from drug dealers and oligarchs

Re: FTX used corporate funds to purchase employee homes, new filing shows

#269

Post by vkou » Thu, Nov 17, 2022, 9:35 PM UTC

boh wrote: post #114

In a separate article Ray also said: “Never in my career have I seen such a complete failure of corporate controls and such a complete absence of trustworthy financial information as occurred here,” And this is the same man who oversaw the liquidation of Enron. "Ray said he had found at FTX international, FTX US and Bankman-Fried’s Alameda Research trading company “compromised systems integrity”, “faulty regulatory o…

Having glanced at the accounts, I don't see why SBF filed for Chapter 11. Assets across all silos seem to exceed liabilities. :)

> Because such balance sheet was produced while the Debtors were controlled by Mr. Bankman-Fried, I do not have confidence in it, and the information therein may not be correct as of the date stated.

... Oh.

> I have substantial concerns as to the information presented in these audited financial statements, especially with respect to the Dotcom Silo. As a practical matter, I do not believe it appropriate for stakeholders or the Court to rely on the audited financial statements as a reliable indication of the financial circumstances of these Silos

... Hmm.

> The Debtors have not yet been able to locate any audited financial statements with respect to the Alameda Silo or the Ventures Silo.

Oh, my.

Re: FTX used corporate funds to purchase employee homes, new filing shows

#270

Post by HDThoreaun » Thu, Nov 17, 2022, 9:35 PM UTC

pessimizer wrote: post #264

HDThoreaun wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SBF got tons of pushback in the EA community. He gave jobs to some of the actual thought leaders so they tried to give him some credit, but there are tons and tons of posts on the EA forum about how Sam's extreme focus on long termism made EA too easy to meme on, and even more posts about how his political shenanigans were likely to cause major issues for the movement.

These are the sketchy intellectual underpinnings I was mentioning. It's less an intellectual endeavor than a small rich white guy social club. Having a little money and hanging out in EA circles means I might get the ear of somebody with a lot of money; especially if I can somehow fit my elevator pitch into their MCU dreams. I'm a believer that altruism should be as effective as possible, but there's little crossover…

I agree that the long termism stuff is largely not effective, but I take issue with your characterization of most effective altruists. Most EA's are just donating to the givewell general fund which I believe does reasonably well at researching and funding effective charities. They're very transparent unlike the long termists, you'd have no problem reading the white papers they publish to see if you agree with their conclusions on effectiveness. And if you don't you're free to do your own investigation and act on what you find. You'd still be an EA.

I do think it's unfortunate that the long termism get all the publicity, but I can't say I'm surprised. WHo wants to hear about boring old philanthropy? Saving humanity from the ai apocalypse much more interesting.