FTX used corporate funds to purchase employee homes, new filing shows • Hacker News Board

Re: FTX used corporate funds to purchase employee homes, new filing shows

#131

Post by dqft » Thu, Nov 17, 2022, 6:51 PM UTC

vkou wrote: post #108

dahdum wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They weren't investing on fundamentals, the books didn't matter. His close association and largesse with regulators, media, and politicians along with his cloak of EA made regulatory capture and the promise of monopoly-like profits possible. VC's aren't stupid, even if they thought it was 80% likely he was an outright fraud, it's still worth the bet for a 20% chance at 50-100x returns.

It's strange to see EA credited as both the reason for why this went on for so long with no oversight, and then damned in a 'ding dong the witch is dead' manner after it fell apart. When a confidence man and thief loudly and proudly shouts out a religious affiliation as his guiding star, we generally don't go ahead and condemn the religion for his behavior. (Doing so is a great way to get canceled. At most, we blame…

Because "EA" as a thing is stupid and redundant even after you recognize that altruism alone is overrated. Its just obvious moralistic garbage.

Re: FTX used corporate funds to purchase employee homes, new filing shows

#132

Post by zeven7 » Thu, Nov 17, 2022, 6:51 PM UTC

jaywalk wrote: post #94

Tenoke wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FTX wasn't just like Coinbase, they were a better exchange than Coinbase with more products. They just ruined that by using the exchange's money to bail out Alameda's unrelated investments. As far as I can tell if they hadn't done that Alameda would've died and FTX would've just kept being a good exchange.

They had to bail out Alameda because Alameda was propping up FTX. I have seen nothing that indicates FTX would have been fine standing alone, and plenty to indicate the opposite. It was a giant scam. All of it.

Right, traders flocked to FTX because it was lucrative, and it was lucrative because Alameda was bleeding money as FTX's market maker.

Re: FTX used corporate funds to purchase employee homes, new filing shows

#133

Post by gamblor956 » Thu, Nov 17, 2022, 6:51 PM UTC

bkishan wrote: post #40

bluedevil2k wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’re not impossible any more and with this getting so much press and the US government likely looking to make an example of SBF, look to get a very detailed trail of where all the $ went. I mean, do you really think, factoring in that he had no accountants and no compliance at all, that he somehow had some of the best money launderers and embezzlers in the world? I highly doubt it, it was probably as amateur as th…

> the US government likely looking to make an example of SBF. Considering the silence from top officials, I don't think this is going to be true. Don't forget he donated ~$50M to the democrats for the mid-terms and was the second biggest dem donor.

In the primaries, to House candidates, many of whom lost their primaries to other Democrats. So there's a fair amount of bad blood between SBF and the Dems that actually made it to the election.

And on top of that, the GOP won the House. What sort of quid pro quo are you expecting him to get from the losing party, most of whom he pissed off?

Re: FTX used corporate funds to purchase employee homes, new filing shows

#134

Post by hcrisp » Thu, Nov 17, 2022, 6:51 PM UTC

tppiotrowski wrote: post #90

"including a loan of FTT tokens to BlockFi Inc. in a principal amount of FTT tokens valued at $250 million as of September 30, 2022." [1] [1] https://pacer-documents.s3.amazonaws.com/33/188450/042020648...

SBF seems to have claimed that funds sent to Alameda were loans. Can he do that here too (even if accounting was sloppy)? If so how does that differ from what other financial institutions do, unless it is in the degree of leverage and risk they take on? I am just imagining a headline like " used corporate funds to purchase employee home".

Re: FTX used corporate funds to purchase employee homes, new filing shows

#135

Post by gabcoh » Thu, Nov 17, 2022, 6:52 PM UTC

jonathankoren wrote: post #119

seydor wrote: post #115

they were probably going to give them to the homeless ...

The EA shtick really feels like Big Tony walking Bart through the logic that selling stolen cigarettes to strangers by the truck load is the same as stealing bread to feed your starving family.

I don't know why it would feel like that. The EA community came out immediately and very forcefully in opposition to SBF and this perversion of EA philosophy since the FTX blow up [1] and they have been vocally opposed to shady practices in the service of EA since long before the last week.

[1]: https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/XHrHsrQGyr4NnqCA7/...

Re: FTX used corporate funds to purchase employee homes, new filing shows

#136

Post by vkou » Thu, Nov 17, 2022, 6:52 PM UTC

oldgradstudent wrote: post #73

twblalock wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even a well-run exchange would not make the magic beans worth anything.

But that's the customer's problem. An exchange can make money letting the customers trade different types of magic beans with each other.

> An exchange can make money letting the customers trade different types of magic beans with each other.

An exchange that only does that won't have any customers, because they'll all be going to the ponzi-exchanges that pay out 8-12% APR if you buy and hold their shitcoin, or where the market makers piss away mountains of customer funds to tighten the spreads.

Now that I think of it, maybe the best way to reign all this madness in is to require that celebrity endorsers and sports arenas can only get paid a decade after they shill for an exchange/coin/etc.

Re: FTX used corporate funds to purchase employee homes, new filing shows

#137

Post by rightbyte » Thu, Nov 17, 2022, 6:52 PM UTC

emehex wrote: post #22

bombcar wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want that XLSX file. I want to print out that spreadsheet for my bedsheet. It's a work of art; it should be hung in every office in the country as a reminder.

Here it is! https://d1e00ek4ebabms.cloudfront.net/production/7ab64a3b-6c...

"Poorly labeled account"? Like, he claims he forgot some liabilities existed? With about the same size as their customers' founds?

Re: FTX used corporate funds to purchase employee homes, new filing shows

#138

Post by three_seagrass » Thu, Nov 17, 2022, 6:56 PM UTC

bkishan wrote: post #40

bluedevil2k wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’re not impossible any more and with this getting so much press and the US government likely looking to make an example of SBF, look to get a very detailed trail of where all the $ went. I mean, do you really think, factoring in that he had no accountants and no compliance at all, that he somehow had some of the best money launderers and embezzlers in the world? I highly doubt it, it was probably as amateur as th…

> the US government likely looking to make an example of SBF. Considering the silence from top officials, I don't think this is going to be true. Don't forget he donated ~$50M to the democrats for the mid-terms and was the second biggest dem donor.

I wouldn't be so sure about that yet.

FTX was directly involved in the joint bi-partisan committee to regulate crypto. Heads will need to roll for this so that others can save face.

Re: FTX used corporate funds to purchase employee homes, new filing shows

#139

Post by radicalbyte » Thu, Nov 17, 2022, 6:56 PM UTC

TheAlchemist wrote: post #129

How can anybody be surprised ? The 2 biggest players - Tether and Binance are much worse and still very well alive. Both are several times bigger (on paper) than FTX. Binance is already banned in most countries and without headquarters. Do anybody believes they have a proper gouvernance ? Tether was proved to lie about it réserves several times, recently started publishing attestations about reserves - attestations t…

> both could disappear tomorrow with all the money

If they go then the magic beans are worth $0. In which case - what are the damages? They've ran away with magic beans worth $0.

To quote Monty Python: "I mean, what have you got to lose? You know, you come from nothing. You're going back to nothing. What have you lost? Nothing."

Re: FTX used corporate funds to purchase employee homes, new filing shows

#140

Post by Tenoke » Thu, Nov 17, 2022, 6:57 PM UTC

jaywalk wrote: post #94

Tenoke wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FTX wasn't just like Coinbase, they were a better exchange than Coinbase with more products. They just ruined that by using the exchange's money to bail out Alameda's unrelated investments. As far as I can tell if they hadn't done that Alameda would've died and FTX would've just kept being a good exchange.

They had to bail out Alameda because Alameda was propping up FTX. I have seen nothing that indicates FTX would have been fine standing alone, and plenty to indicate the opposite. It was a giant scam. All of it.

I mean, I don't see how it could've been losing money. Even if it had less users surely the fees they take more than make-up for the costs the exchange itself has.