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My ADHD founder toolbox

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Re: My ADHD founder toolbox

#331

Post by its_hertz »

yc-kraln wrote: post #62
throwawaaarrgh wrote: post #51

I diagnosed when I was like... 8 years old. From then to 17 I was on various meds, finally gave them all up. So for about 22 years I've coped with ADHD without meds. I am a Staff Engineer and make a good living, respected in my field. Regardless of anything else, I think the key thing to remember about ADHD is that you do not need to be a high-performing human being, at all, in life. You will forget things and get di…

I was diagnosed when I was six, and, like you, I dropped all meds at 17. Recently (as in, this year) through a combination of therapy and introspection, I realized that while indeed I was able to have a successful life, career, relationships without the medication, and that, yes, my coping mechanisms were satisfactory, I was punching myself in the face for no reason Last month I saw a psychiatrist and got a prescript…

What meds are you taking? I avoided this path for as much, but I’m looking to get my doctor prescribe me something.

Re: My ADHD founder toolbox

#332

Post by Jensson »

FollowingTheDao wrote: post #323
mtsr wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If only things were generally so simple. While I'm all for more possible causes that are more easily treated, I’d hardly call this convincing evidence that all we need to treat is zinc deficiencies. But time will tell, as I hope these kinds of research continue.

But did you try it????

Yes, didn't work, stop acting like an asshole. It is very common to check for deficiencies, if people with ADHD had it then likely they wouldn't be prescribed meds before the deficiency is fixed in the first place, you questioning others like this is just making their life worse.

Re: My ADHD founder toolbox

#333

Post by rtikulit »

Eumenes wrote: post #327
rtikulit wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My revelation came when I observed my oldest child in kindergarten (which was nothing like being glued to a seat). My child was the large and obvious behavioural outlier. Then the unbelievable process in grade 3 of coaching their attention to and completion of simple homework, with much emotional distress and sobbing and feelings of inadequacy. Same with participation in sports. There is no such thing as “an ideal en…

You have to look out for your own kid and do what's best, not my place to speak, but I think we can agree on different approaches to these problems. Not all have to be involved with diagnosis or medicine. I shared these articles in another comment, but this is what I fear is taking over the 'mental health' diagnosis situation atm: https://unherd.com/2022/11/who-decides-if-youre-mentally-ill... https://mentalhellth.xy…

I will agree that you are conflating and grossly oversimplifying a number of related but different issues. As a result your conclusions are just not valid.

Does the educational system make age-inappropriate almost inhumane demands on children? Yes. Do many kids have attentional and behavioural issues that are not ADHD? Yes. That can be improved without medication? Yes. Should these be distinguished from true AHDH and treated differently? Yes. Should kids with ADHD try non-medical interventions first? Yes. Should kids who have clear diagnostic markers for ADHD and who respond well to stimulants be prescribed stimulants? Hell yes. Should psychiatrists try to weed out non-ADHD people looking for legal sources of speed? Hell yes. Are the fields of psychopathology and psychotherapy problematic? Somewhat. Are they "right"? Not exactly, no. Are they "wrong"? Not exactly, no. Do they relieve suffering? Sometimes, Do they create unintended consequences? Yes, more often than we'd like. Is the whole field conducted in bad faith? No! Is it a work in progress? Yes. Are there bad faith practitioners? Yes. Are there incompetent practitioners? Yes. Are there competent practitioners acting in good faith? Absolutely yes. Are there reliable signals to tell these apart? No, unfortunately, no. Is there an epidemic of performance-enhancing prescription drug abuse in the circles in which you run? Apparently so, and I've heard this elsewhere. Is there performance-enhancing prescription drug abuse in the circles in which I run? Not to my knowledge.

Life is complicated. You do no good by mashing all this stuff together and disposing of it with simplistic conclusions.

Re: My ADHD founder toolbox

#334

Post by dymk »

Eumenes wrote: post #326
dymk wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm highly skeptical of a "disease" or "disorder". Well, it’s you versus the entire medical community. Who do you think is more likely yo be right? Your bad experience is unfortunate but does not reflect that of most people with ADHD. It’s the only disorder which responds incredibly well to treatment by stimulants, and you’ll find that fact proven out by medical science.

Psychology/psychiatry has a dark past and seems to change its mind on things very often (often because of political correctness). Borderline a pseudoscience. Until there's a blood test or concrete psychological proof, its just simply not a disease. These articles were great reads on this phenomenon of self diagnosis: https://unherd.com/2022/11/who-decides-if-youre-mentally-ill... https://mentalhellth.xyz/p/the-buzzfe…

> Until there's a blood test or concrete psychological proof, its just simply not a disease

Again, you versus the entire medical community. I am saddened to see you making such strong claims from a position of such ignorance.

You're talking about self-diagnosis, and I'm talking about medical professional diagnosing the disease.

Re: My ADHD founder toolbox

#335

Post by zrm »

FollowingTheDao wrote: post #247
sedivy94 wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s amphetamine. The energy is from the amphetamine. The mechanism of action (norepinephrine and dopamine reputable inhibition) isn’t far from that of cocaine or methamphetamine. Let’s be real here. Amphetamine is known to skew one’s self assessment of their performance while on the drug.

This is the truth. And by the way, the effect on dopamine is secondary. ADHD meds work because they affect glutamate leveles. You all do not have low Dopamine, you have low glutamate. https://www.nature.com/articles/nn0301_275 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3966039/ https://www.brown.edu/news/2018-03-12/glutamate And you all probably just need B6: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24321736/

The active form of B6 is the enzyme cofactor used by AADC:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aromatic_L-amino_acid_decarbox...

AADC is an enzyme in the path that converts amino acids into dopamine and PEA/NMPEA (see "biosynthetic pathways" in above link), the latter of which is an endogenous structural isomer of amphetamine.

You're not really making a strong case that this isn't about dopamine or that amphetamine is the wrong thing for it.

Moreover, B6 will make more of these things up until the point that it's no longer the rate limiter in their production, if it ever was. (The rate limiting step for dopamine is ordinarily AAAH converting Tyrosine into L-DOPA). And if you hit a different rate limiter before you have enough dopamine or PEA/NMPEA, what then?

Important note: This is also a thing:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megavitamin-B6_syndrome

> Megavitamin-B6 syndrome has been reported in doses as low as 24 mg/day.

Meanwhile people sell 500mg B6 tablets and it has a half life of like a month. Ask your doctor etc etc.

Re: My ADHD founder toolbox

#336

Post by biggerChris »

RHSman2 wrote: post #254
biggerChris wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

It got downvoted because it is your opinion.

My two ADHD comments gave me -9 points. Lol.

Yes. It’s my opinion. I wish I had a Scientific prove on it. But logically. It makes sense.

Re: My ADHD founder toolbox

#337

Post by jethro_tell »

RHSman2 wrote: post #324
jethro_tell wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is me, too. I grew up in a "Kids just don't want to learn any more, they all just take meds to fix behavior problems" household. I quit my meds when I was about 16/17 failed out of my last year of highschool, went on to become a construction foreman for huge projects managing crews of 30-40. During a layoff in 2009 because there was no construction, I installed linux on a laptop because I borked my OS and didn't…

Fist bump! So I'm like this just not as 'successful' AND I haven't gone medicated as I'm on the cusp. Although, I've been putting something off for a while....;) 'The thing that's most beneficial is a bit unseen, I'm not carrying a burden of self-loathing, fear, anxiety on my back, all stressors that were a result of my inability to entirely control my focus and do the thing that I wanted to do when I wanted to. That…

> I am currently in the mindset that I don't get to choose what I do. I either do it, or I don't and that has forced me down a route to where I find myself. Which has really worked out. But only because I caught myself and that those knife edge moments went the right way.

The problem that I found as I got older is there's substantially less room for just going with the flow. It worked great for years. Now I have people that I'm responsible to and do it or don't do it doesn't work. I can't just leave it to chance if I sit down and read with my kids daily or cook them healthy foods. Their lives will pass by while I'm wondering around waiting for the inspiration to be a good parent.

So a heads up, that works great when no one depends on you much. It works a lot less great when you owe people things that you really care about.

Re: My ADHD founder toolbox

#338

Post by FollowingTheDao »

Jensson wrote: post #332
FollowingTheDao wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But did you try it????

Yes, didn't work, stop acting like an asshole. It is very common to check for deficiencies, if people with ADHD had it then likely they wouldn't be prescribed meds before the deficiency is fixed in the first place, you questioning others like this is just making their life worse.

One, I do not beleive you.

Two, If you did, how much did you take? And what type? Pyridoxine or Pyridoxal-Phosphate? For how long? Were you tested for a B6 defieicny, high homocysteine?

Three, it is in NO WAY common for deficiencies to be tested for mood disorders and even less common for a doctor nevermind a psychiatrist to do anything about it.

And calling me an asshole when I am advocating for better health is making everyone's life worse. I do not mind if people choose to take stimulants, but they are not being advised that there are other options.

Re: My ADHD founder toolbox

#339

Post by Jensson »

FollowingTheDao wrote: post #338
Jensson wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, didn't work, stop acting like an asshole. It is very common to check for deficiencies, if people with ADHD had it then likely they wouldn't be prescribed meds before the deficiency is fixed in the first place, you questioning others like this is just making their life worse.

One, I do not beleive you. Two, If you did, how much did you take? And what type? Pyridoxine or Pyridoxal-Phosphate? For how long? Were you tested for a B6 defieicny, high homocysteine? Three, it is in NO WAY common for deficiencies to be tested for mood disorders and even less common for a doctor nevermind a psychiatrist to do anything about it. And calling me an asshole when I am advocating for better health is mak…

> One, I do not beleive you.

That makes you an asshole.

> Three, it is in NO WAY common for deficiencies to be tested for mood disorders and even less common for a doctor nevermind a psychiatrist to do anything about it.

Why do you believe this? It is easy and cheap to do a blood test for deficiencies, I have done that many time and they found I lacked nothing. Do you have any evidence it isn't common to check for deficiencies, because to me it seems like that is one of the first thing they check.

Re: My ADHD founder toolbox

#340

Post by FollowingTheDao »

zrm wrote: post #335
FollowingTheDao wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the truth. And by the way, the effect on dopamine is secondary. ADHD meds work because they affect glutamate leveles. You all do not have low Dopamine, you have low glutamate. https://www.nature.com/articles/nn0301_275 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3966039/ https://www.brown.edu/news/2018-03-12/glutamate And you all probably just need B6: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24321736/

The active form of B6 is the enzyme cofactor used by AADC: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aromatic_L-amino_acid_decarbox... AADC is an enzyme in the path that converts amino acids into dopamine and PEA/NMPEA (see "biosynthetic pathways" in above link), the latter of which is an endogenous structural isomer of amphetamine. You're not really making a strong case that this isn't about dopamine or that amphetamine is the…

P5P is also the cofactor for GAD1 an GAD2:

https://www.uniprot.org/uniprotkb/Q99259/entry

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/340492849_The_Gluta...

I did not say it is not about dopamine, but it is, at a deeper level, about glutamate. Which is why coffee works so well for ADHD because the stimulant action from caffeine is produced by glutamate.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7700297/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4166758/

Regardless, here is so much evidence that B6 plays a large role in ADHD and what, you all just ignore it?

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