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Sam Bankman-Fried tries to explain himself

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Re: Sam Bankman-Fried tries to explain himself

#361

Post by logicalmonster »

expazl wrote: post #124

It this real? Is he really THAT stupid? His defense against "you took user deposits and gambled the money" is "No, I took user deposits, loaned them to myself and then gambled the money". I mean this is like nested layers of stupidity. You'd be stupid to do this, you'd be stupid to think it's not a major crime, you'd be stupid to think that this was in any way acts as a defense of your crime and you'd be stupid to ac…

Even if he gets convicted of anything non-trivial, how does he actually stay in jail for very long? Call me cynical or a conspiracy theorist or whatever, but a guy who's rubbed shoulders with the "elite" and who probably has at least a billion dollars in crypto stashed away can probably figure out who to bribe to walk out the jail's back door and take a private flight to a country who won't send him back.

Re: Sam Bankman-Fried tries to explain himself

#362

Post by lazide »

Quarrelsome wrote: post #256
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you f'ing kidding me, taking this at face value? Note in other tweets he said he was trying to "raise capital". The man is likely going to prison for years, he is either delusional or trying to promote his delusions to pretend the he didn't know what he was doing was wrong.

> Are you f'ing kidding me, taking this at face value? Well we can't cherry-pick the sociopathy as real and then start second guessing the bit where he sounds a lot less like a sociopath... can we?

Considering that sociopaths (by definition) do damaging things to people while also:

-Using intelligence, charm, or charisma to manipulate others.

- Not learning from mistakes or punishment.

- Lying for personal gain.

It seems fair to call out that you can’t trust their statements this way, if that is what is going on. It’s pretty much the nature of the disorder.

Re: Sam Bankman-Fried tries to explain himself

#363

Post by kingofheroes »

c7DJTLrn wrote: post #173
ZephyrBlu wrote: post #148

Author: "so the ethics stuff - mostly a front?" SBF: "yeah" Absolutely gobsmacked. I saw these screenshots on Twitter and I thought they were fake until I read the article. The rest of the messages from him are pretty terrible as well. I thought he just fucked up, but no. He was wilfully unethical and maintains he did nothing wrong: "Sometimes life creeps up on you". And the thing he regrets most is filing for Chapte…

I'm wondering if there is some kind of mass insanity occurring in the world right now with this and the behaviour of numerous influential figures.

Wealth reveals. Just like alcohol.

Re: Sam Bankman-Fried tries to explain himself

#364

Post by bhouston »

HWR_14 wrote: post #335
bhouston wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not sure. If I owe $8B and I raise $8B and then give it to the people whom are owed $8B, what exactly am I giving the investors? Basically he has an $8B hole and let's say everything else nets to zero (e.g. assets - liabilities = -$8B.) No one in their right mind would give $8B to get what is otherwise worth nothing. This is a non-starter, especially now that the brand is also completely tarnished.

He claims he owes $8B and has $9B in crypto/investments that is just hard to sell right now. That is, he claims assets - liabilities = 1B, but assets_that_can_be_sold_on_the_open_market_before_bankruptcy - liabilities = -8B. If that were true, then someone giving him $8B in cash for the assets, liquidating the assets for $9B (making $1B) over time and all his depositors getting their cash is good for everyone. This i…

I guess you are correct. I give you that.

And you are also correct that what he likely is greatly over stating the value of the assets he is holding, which is funny money tokens like FTT, SRM, etc which he is artificially inflating.

Re: Sam Bankman-Fried tries to explain himself

#365

Post by jl2718 »

He's being honest here, and we should listen to him.

Point 1: Most personalities are shams. Ethics/politics among the powerful is a lie/shibboleth.

Instinctively you know this to be true, but hope in a great savior is deeply ingrained.

Point 2: Regulators make things worse. They are actively working against our interests.

He would know best; they created him. Again, we want to believe in the great savior myth, but they are just people: lazy, corruptible, political, etc.

Point 3: Chapter 11 made things worse.

He's probably right about this too. He's saying that he would have the power to pay back depositors first. Chapter 11 only gives him legal protection, and puts depositors last. They will liquidate everything to USD, pay a 10% commission for a horrible rate, and then pay the lawyers, then the counterparties, then the investors, and then a tiny fraction back to depositors, years down the road. Another MTGOX/BITFINEX.

As a reference, the Irving Picard recovered $9.3B from Madoff and paid only $5.4B to depositors. The rest evaporated in liquidation expenses and legal fees of $700M. The legal fees for Lehman Brothers liquidation was $1.6B. The people running the show now are not your great saviors; they are incompetent, greedy, and morally disconnected.

Re: Sam Bankman-Fried tries to explain himself

#366

Post by Denvercoder9 »

jl2718 wrote: post #365

He's being honest here, and we should listen to him. Point 1: Most personalities are shams. Ethics/politics among the powerful is a lie/shibboleth. Instinctively you know this to be true, but hope in a great savior is deeply ingrained. Point 2: Regulators make things worse. They are actively working against our interests. He would know best; they created him. Again, we want to believe in the great savior myth, but th…

Chapter 11 proceedings will not pay investors before depositors.

Re: Sam Bankman-Fried tries to explain himself

#367

Post by notch656a »

jl2718 wrote: post #365

He's being honest here, and we should listen to him. Point 1: Most personalities are shams. Ethics/politics among the powerful is a lie/shibboleth. Instinctively you know this to be true, but hope in a great savior is deeply ingrained. Point 2: Regulators make things worse. They are actively working against our interests. He would know best; they created him. Again, we want to believe in the great savior myth, but th…

Is this satire? The dude is likely a sociopath who is speaking for whatever he think meets his interests and/or vanity.

Re: Sam Bankman-Fried tries to explain himself

#368

Post by eternalban »

notch656a wrote: post #367
jl2718 wrote: post #365

He's being honest here, and we should listen to him. Point 1: Most personalities are shams. Ethics/politics among the powerful is a lie/shibboleth. Instinctively you know this to be true, but hope in a great savior is deeply ingrained. Point 2: Regulators make things worse. They are actively working against our interests. He would know best; they created him. Again, we want to believe in the great savior myth, but th…

Is this satire? The dude is likely a sociopath who is speaking for whatever he think meets his interests and/or vanity.

Some words of wisdom from our 43rd:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQ6N-sb7SVQ

Re: Sam Bankman-Fried tries to explain himself

#370

Post by eternalban »

c7DJTLrn wrote: post #173
ZephyrBlu wrote: post #148

Author: "so the ethics stuff - mostly a front?" SBF: "yeah" Absolutely gobsmacked. I saw these screenshots on Twitter and I thought they were fake until I read the article. The rest of the messages from him are pretty terrible as well. I thought he just fucked up, but no. He was wilfully unethical and maintains he did nothing wrong: "Sometimes life creeps up on you". And the thing he regrets most is filing for Chapte…

I'm wondering if there is some kind of mass insanity occurring in the world right now with this and the behaviour of numerous influential figures.

No, it is wrong to think it is a "mass" phenomena. A very small group of people around the planet are involved here.

What is happening is what happens in all long running systems where the generational selection process becomes ineffective due to (typically) nepotism, hedonism, and corruption. What was once, if arguably ethically challenged, but competent elite gives way to an openly corrupt and incompetent set. Healthy systems check this phenomena -- it happens in all power entities historically -- and correct it. When they fail to correct it, they suddenly collapse.

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