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Digital books wear out faster than physical books

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Re: Digital books wear out faster than physical books

#411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is that the paperback can sit on a shelf for 100 years be readable. An ebook takes a migration plan to remain readable. Yes you can remove DRM, but libraries cannot, they have to keep paying, and they're being sued to prevent them from preserving and migrating their data.

> The point is that the paperback can sit on a shelf for 100 years be readable. Physically? Maybe. But another factor is that human languages will naturally evolve to the point where future generations won't be able to read the words we're writing now without some kind of translation service. Even if it hasn't evolved enough to be classified as an entirely new language, it can change enough to be extremely difficult…

What's curious to me is that some languages, and writing systems, preserve better than others.

Latin, having become a dead language used principally by the Church and for a time science / natural philosophy, remains highly-readable across centuries so long as you read Latin. Similarly for classical Greek.

I'm given to understand that Arabic, itself significantly preserved in the Quaran as a literal verbatim transmission from the 7th century.

Written Chinese, zhōngwén, or 中文, is logosyllabic, where symbols represent the concepts rather than the phonetic representation of a syllable. It is not only generally readable across millennia, but even across largely mutually-unintelligible dialects of Chinese, or other languages (Korean and Japanese, for example).

Contrast written English which becomes highly idiosyncratic even only a couple of centuries ago (long-S, nonuniform spellings, highly stylised and formalised expressions), and both difficult to read and understand (verbally) from as few as five centuries ago.

Shakespeare, for example: https://yewtu.be/watch?v=YiblRSqhL04>

Hamlet's "To be or not to be" soliloquy https://yewtu.be/watch?v=qYiYd9RcK5M>

Beowulf (c. 700--1000 AD): https://yewtu.be/watch?v=qYiYd9RcK5M>

Numerous of the modern languages of Europe (Spanish, English, French, German) date only to about 900--1,000 CE or so, and the forms spoken then would be difficult or impossible for most moderns to understand. Written forms ... often didn't exist at all (government and business being transacted in Latin, Greek, or Arabic throughout much the region).

Re: Digital books wear out faster than physical books

#412

A related thing Brewster didn't mention: When libraries "buy" ebooks from publishers, what they're actually buying is a license to lend the ebook a fixed number of times. For example, after a library lends a HarperCollins ebook 26 times, it disappears from the library's virtual shelf until it's purchased again. A hardcover physical book by comparison will typically last for 30 - 100 checkouts before it becomes too wo…

On the Media just had a quite good episode on libraries, including both physical and digital formats, and the Internet Archive / Open Library lawsuit:

https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/otm/episodes/on-the-med...>

Re: Digital books wear out faster than physical books

#413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those user hostile features are what drive me to piracy. No way I'll pay money to have the privilege of installing spyware just so I can stream low-quality video to whatever device the provider deems worthy at that particular moment. I'll just go on 1337x and in 2 minutes I have an high quality mkv that I can play anywhere I want. I'd happily pay 5-10$ a pop for this, and for indie movies I do make the effort of seei…

What a way to justify a crime. "I don't like how they act, so I don't comply with their rules". You pirate because you have no respect for law, because you are a entitled child or because you don't have enough money. Piracy isn't plain theft, but it's consuming a service without paying for it to its legimate owners. It's close, isn't it? Would you sneak into a amusement park? Not pay for dinner if you found it not to…

Wow, someone copied something. Better send out the battleships to blockade their country and bring them to their knees for this unspeakable crime against humanity.

You're damn right I have no respect for copyright law. I want to see it abolished. As far as I'm concerned, copyright infringement is civil disobedience and a moral imperative. These monopolists don't have any respect for our rights either: they systematically rob us of our fair use and public domain rights. So why should anyone give a shit about some monopolist's imaginary property?

Re: Digital books wear out faster than physical books

#414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they put reasonable barriers to piracy. They are of course possible to circumvent, as every other barrier in existence, but you can also scan or make photocopies of a physical book. And this is actually a good thing. Mildly related: the other they I was watching something on Netflix on my phone and found something funny so I tried to take an screenshot to share with my friends, which quite frankly I think is…

> It didn't work because it seems that although I paid for my phone, it's not really my phone. Root it.

Hardware remote attestation will end that soon. Every app will refuse to run on modified devices and it will be impossible to circumvent because it's in hardware.

Re: Digital books wear out faster than physical books

#415

Physical books wear out in decades to centuries, computers break in years to decades. Also digital formats are constantly evolving and backwards compatibility for old formats is removed. Even without publisher/legal issues it's clear that preservation of digital media for even the next 10 years , and especially for the next 100 or 1000, is at risk. But I really wonder why is there no other major service like the Inte…

The licensing that libraries are forced to use in order to support lending digital books only allows them to "loan" the digital book a certain number of times. Depending on publisher, it could be 50-200 loans and then the license goes poof - time to buy a new copy of the digital book to lend out.

Yes, paper books can get destroyed. I remember spilling gravy all over one library book. That was an expensive book to replace. Plus I ruined all that gravy.

> Does the Internet Archive store redundant copies in many locations? Does it use long-term physical formats?

I'm sure they do. Personally, I'd really like to know what some "best practices" there are in doing this. Other than the digital preservation group at the Library of Congress, I'm a newbie at some of this. And no one else has thought about it.

https://www.loc.gov/preservation/digital/index.html

The state agency I work for has to keep records forever. And they have to be readable forever. You can't have the statutes become unreadable because digital files get bit rot, or folks decide that they don't want to support older versions.

Re: Digital books wear out faster than physical books

#416
post #338

Click-bait title. It's about devices, not the actual digitized book. I have .pdf files from 90's when I started to learn assembler, they still apply (for basic and medium) today and I can read them just fine on my Foxit reader.

To be fair, there are probably other files from that time which you can't read anymore easily.

to be fair there are books from hundreds of years ago written in dead languages which you can't read anymore easily.

as for file formats, pretty sure you can find readers in some internet archive + operating systems which you can just as easily get/create and emulator for.

Re: Digital books wear out faster than physical books

#417
post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> HTML, XML, and ZIP files aren't going anywhere I wouldn’t be surprised if some of those go out of use in a few hundred years, if not much earlier. There will probably be major conversion efforts going on at some point. The alternative, the above formats being maintained for eternity, would be somehow depressing.

I looked up those formats and they are all around 30 years old, which is insane for technology and around when Windows 3.1 and Mac OS 7 were released. So maybe they will stay... They are all-but deprecated though: HTML 1.0 is much different from HTML5 (2014); XML is upgraded to XML 1.1 (2004) and most people use JSON nowadays; and ZIP is very inferior to gzip and 7-zip. We're lucky web browsers are strict with never…

>and ZIP is still used by macOS instead of .tar.gz for some reason.

Also, several other tiny insignificant Operating Systems like Android(/Linux) [apk files] and Windows [builtin explorer support]. Let's also not forget Java JAR files.

Re: Digital books wear out faster than physical books

#418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is nonsense. I have almost never seen paperbacks wear out. Obviously it's possible, but even in any of their common failure modes, they are still easily read. I don't know why anyone would argue that saved files are somehow more reliable, it feels not at all genuine

Paperbacks are easily lost, stolen, or destroyed by things like flood, fire, mildew, insects. While digital books are also stored on media that can be lost, stolen, etc., the magic comes from storing multiple copies in different places.

In the 3rd world or maybe in the "cardboard" homes in the US, Maybe. But under a proper shelf, wardrobe, desk or box, books last for long.

I still have a comic book compilation (hard cover) from the 70's right here. The condition it's perfect for its age.

Re: Digital books wear out faster than physical books

#419
post #260
post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LOL. Were are you from? I have books from 1800 at home.

Maybe from Hogwarts...have you seen want they do with their books?

Seriously, here in Europe books are treated with a lot of care because books were and are relatively expensive, unlike mangas in Japan which were sold like chip bags.

Maybe a lot of them have a folded page or such, but the content it's readable. Try that with IDE disks from a Pentium II.

Re: Digital books wear out faster than physical books

#420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes, it's hard, but papyrus kept inside a very strong, possibly waterproof, possibly not affected by rust (alluminium, stainless steel etc), metal box will last much longer than hard drives kept inside the same strong metal box.

true, but we could always print encoded digital data to that papyrus and call it a data-storage method :)

And now you need a parser and a machine :)
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