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Mom handcuffed, jailed for 8-year-old son walking half a mile

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Re: Mom handcuffed, jailed for 8-year-old son walking half a mile

#471

Post by ticviking »

fluidcruft wrote: post #327
gspencley wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Investigate, absolutely. The cops need to do that as well. However, as someone else pointed out "Child services had the family agree to a safety plan" is not investigating. That's taking action and making a threat: "if you don't agree to this we'll take you to court and let a judge sort it out at your expense."

When CPS is investigating abuse it seems completely reasonable for them to implement a safety plan to ensure ongoing abuse doesn't occur during the investigation. Far better than yanking the kids into protective custody.

You seem to be resistant in several threads to the idea that the specific conduct alleged is not on its face abuse. There was never a reason for CPS to even claim they were investigating abuse.

I have had jobs that required me to be a mandatory reporter several times in my life, and none of this was even close to evidence of abuse I'd have to report.

Re: Mom handcuffed, jailed for 8-year-old son walking half a mile

#472

Post by freejazz »

emodendroket wrote: post #376
fluidcruft wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How could CPS possibly know that before they investigate?

It seems to me that if CPS immediately and preemptively puts you under a punitive regime like this (what happens if grandparents don't live nearby or just aren't alive? Oh well, not their problem I guess) for merely being reported, then it is a highly effective vehicle for harassing neighbors you don't like.

They came up with that plan because the grandparents DID live nearby.

Re: Mom handcuffed, jailed for 8-year-old son walking half a mile

#473

Post by thot_experiment »

nineplay wrote: post #219
bhelkey wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Child services had the family agree to a safety plan, which meant Wallace and her husband could not be alone with their kids for even a second. Their mothers—the children's grandmothers—had to visit and trade-off overnight stays in order to guarantee the parents were constantly supervised. After two weeks, child services closed Wallace's case, finding the complaint was unfounded. This is the fault of the nosey neig…

When I write software, I know that users will do dumb things and it is my responsibility to write my code in such a way that they can cause no damage. The legal system should have similar responsibilities. If citizens can report crimes, some citizens will incorrectly report non-crimes. If the legal system can't handle that, the that is entirely the fault of the legal system.

I agree with your point in this context 100% but I would like to push back on the vibe in *all* software contexts. Obviously in some contexts sure, nobody wants another Therac-25. However, in general I believe modern software is overly concerned with preventing the user from doing dumb things at the expense of expandability and user control.

Metaphorically it feels like we've adopted a model that has safety interlocks and authenticated access for every screwdriver and light switch in your house. Some of the inaccessible to the end user without serious reverse engineering. To some extent I get why absurd proliferation of IoT devices necessitates some of this but I think there's a better way. A world where we have a decent lock on the front door and you're the one who's responsible for not putting the drill through your eyeball, not the drill.

Re: Mom handcuffed, jailed for 8-year-old son walking half a mile

#474

Post by ben7799 »

woodruffw wrote: post #139

This is (one of) the logical conclusions of suburban, car-enforced social alienation: if you don't know your neighbors and your neighbors don't know you, then everything that isn't immediately familiar to either party is treated with suspicion. And this holds for the entire "food chain": police who don't live in the areas they patrol, DAs and CPS employees who don't understand their communities, &c. It's civically an…

Excellent point.. in these places it is not normal to ever travel from point A to point B without getting in a car. Anyone walking is suspect.

It's bizarre. Where I live the police are not insane like this but people will still be shocked if they find out you walked 1/2 mile instead of taking a car.

Re: Mom handcuffed, jailed for 8-year-old son walking half a mile

#475

Post by 2-718-281-828 »

like 30 years ago, when I went to elementary school. i literally went there by foot. a little more than one kilometer. alone. in winter it was dark - and cold. my parents being divorced and my mother being a yoga teacher giving classes in the evening I even had to to the breakfast myself. as far as I can tell I turned out alright. I have to wonder - what changed - is this "everything was better back then" trope really just a trope?

Re: Mom handcuffed, jailed for 8-year-old son walking half a mile

#477

Post by tastyfreeze »

sdsd wrote: post #448
tastyfreeze wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Youtube keeps suggesting https://www.youtube.com/@AuditTheAudit to me. In many of the videos the officers just make up what they think the law is. Just a warning, more than a few of the videos on AuditTheAudit are infuriating due to the level of arrogance, incompetence, negligence, and abuse of authority displayed. But, it is nice that there is a way to air this dirty laundry in public. As GI Joe says, "Knowing is ha…

>As GI Joe says, "Knowing is half the battle". Not really disagreeing (and this really is a fantastic channel), but in wellness circles this is called the "GI Joe Fallacy"[1]. The idea being that knowing about something really is a tiny part of actually solving it. Most people are very aware of their problems, and simple awareness isn't very helpful. To put it in more startup-y terms, success comes from 1% ideas and…

I don't know what a wellness circle is. You can't do anything about a problem if you don't know what the problem is.

Re: Mom handcuffed, jailed for 8-year-old son walking half a mile

#478

Post by bhelkey »

pessimizer wrote: post #303
bhelkey wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Child services had the family agree to a safety plan, which meant Wallace and her husband could not be alone with their kids for even a second. Their mothers—the children's grandmothers—had to visit and trade-off overnight stays in order to guarantee the parents were constantly supervised. After two weeks, child services closed Wallace's case, finding the complaint was unfounded. This is the fault of the nosey neig…

> This is the fault of the nosey neighbor Only in the most unproductive way. You're not going to fix the problem by exterminating all nosy neighbors. If your new roof leaks when it rains, it's not the rain's fault, blame it on the person who builds roofs ignoring the unavoidable fact that rain will eventually fall.

> A woman one block away had called the cops to report a boy walking outside alone. That lady had actually asked Aiden where he lived, verified that it was just down the street, and proceeded to call nonetheless.

I have no problem blaming this behavior. To be clear, it would not be productive to blame only the neighbor.

Re: Mom handcuffed, jailed for 8-year-old son walking half a mile

#479

Post by actionfromafar »

crooked-v wrote: post #307
giarc wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The irony is one of the officers claimed the boy could have been kidnapped or taken into a sex trafficking ring. And their solution is to arrest the mom, not to take care of the kidnapping or sex trafficking.

See also the cases where children are arrested and jailed for 'child pornography' for sending nude photos of themselves to others.

With a permanent record, can't apply for many jobs, can never live near a school or daycare center, etc etc. Maybe can't even vote.

Re: Mom handcuffed, jailed for 8-year-old son walking half a mile

#480

Post by dragonwriter »

freejazz wrote: post #472
emodendroket wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems to me that if CPS immediately and preemptively puts you under a punitive regime like this (what happens if grandparents don't live nearby or just aren't alive? Oh well, not their problem I guess) for merely being reported, then it is a highly effective vehicle for harassing neighbors you don't like.

They came up with that plan because the grandparents DID live nearby.

> They came up with that plan because the grandparents DID live nearby.

Yes, these kind of ”no unsupervised time, but children remain with parents” agreements are one alternative that CPS sometimes gives, where what they see as suitable supervisers are available, to putting the children in temporary foster care during an investigation.

They are justified in exactly the same cases where what they are an alternative to would be justified.

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