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Why is the terminal input so weird?

warp.dev

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Re: Why is the terminal input so weird?

#21

Post by drcongo »

theblazehen wrote: post #12
drcongo wrote: post #8

I have one question about terminal input that I cannot work out how to work out. The setup: I'm on a Mac, I use iTerm for my terminal, Fish for my shell, and most often I'm inside a docker container also running Fish and using iPython. The question: When I Ctrl+W to delete a word in a Fish prompt, what counts as a word is different to what counts as a word in iPython. For instance, Ctrl+w at the end of this string `t…

> I'm guessing that the rough flow of the delete word signal is iTerm -> Fish -> iPython and that iPython is the thing that's being overzealous? Almost correct. Once you launch iPython, Fish is out of the picture until you quit iPython. However yes iPython does handle Ctrl-W differently from your shell

Thanks, that helps narrow it down. Next to work out how to make it behave more like fish, as Ctrl+w deleting the entire string `test.func('param1',` seems like madness to me.

Re: Why is the terminal input so weird?

#23

Post by chungy »

Emacs's term-mode already solves all of these supposed problems.

I say supposed because they're really not all that big of a deal. OK, bash making it difficult to go backwards to previous lines is... annoying, at least until you press C-x C-e and do what you want anyway.

The use of a mouse for something text-centered is pretty much foreign to me, too.

Re: Why is the terminal input so weird?

#25

Post by alokedesai »

zokier wrote: post #4

Although I don't like terminals, I think the article overstates the problems to significant degree. The fact that text editors running in terminal still manage to have "ide-like" experience (including mouse input!) proves that you can do a lot with terminals. I still think that trying to move beyond terminals is good idea, but it's important to distinguish what is impossible, and what is just ugly/hacky to do.

Aloke from the Warp team here--you're totally right that some of these features (syntax highlighting) can be accomplished within the terminal using an editor. In a traditional terminal--you'd have to spend time configuring your shell to get this to work instead of getting these features by default.

Some of these features are near-impossible given the current terminal-shell abstraction, however. For example, a traditional terminal has no concept of command input/output, which means that it can't suggest a next command to run based on the output of the previous command.

Re: Why is the terminal input so weird?

#26

Post by Arnavion »

lordleft wrote: post #18

Guys, it doesn't matter if you can edit terminal input in vim. If there's a way to do it in an even more ergonomic / user-friendly way, that's not intrinsically a bad thing. This entire comment thread makes us sound like tech-grognards. Warp's pricing model is a whole other issue though.

And who decided that Warp's method is more ergonomic / user-friendly with such objective proof that it cannot be argued over?

Re: Why is the terminal input so weird?

#27

Post by KronisLV »

danny_warp wrote: post #16
smoldesu wrote: post #3

As much as I'd like to encourage the rethinking of input methods, any terminal with a "Pricing" page is an instant nope from me. My current terminal is Open Source and while it's not perfect, it's also Free. That matters more to me than mouse input or IDE autosuggestions. If you're going to treat Linux users as a second-class citizen and charge for corporate usage, who are you hoping your target audience will be? Fra…

The app is 100% free for any and all individuals. The business plan is to create collaborative and cloud-based features that businesses will be willing to pay for. Please check out our pricing page to learn more. Please note that our business model is not about collecting and monetizing any of your personal data. https://www.warp.dev/privacy

> The business plan is to create collaborative and cloud-based features that businesses will be willing to pay for.

You know what, that is fair. I know a lot of folks take an issue with software that is monetized and many are jumpy about software that might rugpull them and lock certain features behind a paywall some time down the line, or look into more aggressive forms of monetization, but at the same time a lot of software would probably be better made if it had stable financial backing.

I'll probably keep using the most boring terminal setup that's possible just for the sake of not being an early adopter (which is just an excuse because I don't have a Mac), but I'm curious to see how this will play out in the long term, so good luck with your endeavor!

> Please check out our pricing page to learn more.

Here's the direct link: https://www.warp.dev/pricing

And to save folks a click:

  Individual
  A modern terminal experience for individuals. Download now!
  Free
  Includes
  - Block Creation
  - A.I. Command Search
  - Workflows
  - Modern input text editing
  
  Team
  Advanced collaboration and support for teams. Coming soon.
  Pricing TBD
  Everything in Individual, Plus
  - Shared team configurations
  - Shared team workflows
  - Real-time terminal sharing
  - Shared terminal notebooks

  Enterprise
  Security, compliance, and flexible deployment. Coming soon.
  Pricing TBD
  Everything in Team, plus
  - Advanced security and compliance
  - Advanced team deployment
  - Integration with internal tools

Re: Why is the terminal input so weird?

#28

Post by bee_rider »

lordleft wrote: post #18

Guys, it doesn't matter if you can edit terminal input in vim. If there's a way to do it in an even more ergonomic / user-friendly way, that's not intrinsically a bad thing. This entire comment thread makes us sound like tech-grognards. Warp's pricing model is a whole other issue though.

It isn’t a bad thing that somebody is trying to find an alternative to the standard terminal. Good luck to them!

But they decided to write a whole blog post making up problems about peoples’ current workflow. People are naturally going to point out that they don’t suffer from these problems.

If warp didn’t want it to matter, they could have not brought it up I guess.

Re: Why is the terminal input so weird?

#29

Post by alokedesai »

kevdoran wrote: post #22

Warp looks fantastic! It looks like it's not OSS yet but they're considering it? https://github.com/warpdotdev/Warp/blob/main/LICENSE

Thank you for your kind words! We are planning to first open-source our Rust UI framework, and then parts and potentially all of our client. We want to make sure we get this right, both for our users and for Warp.

Our current best-guess on how we'd do this is a more restrictive license that * allows for verifying security and privacy * allows individuals to build and tweak Warp * prevents another company from starting a commercial enterprise off of it

We'd love more thoughts here though! Feel free to join the discussion at https://github.com/warpdotdev/Warp/discussions/400 if you're interested.

Re: Why is the terminal input so weird?

#30

Post by bhauer »

danny_warp wrote: post #14

Warp currently requires a login to enable cloud-based features, like A.I. Command Search and Block Sharing, along with team features on the roadmap. In case there was any confusion, Warp never sends the contents of terminal commands and outputs to our servers (unless a user explicitly chooses to use the "Block Sharing" feature). What Warp currently sends in regard to telemetry is listed here: https://docs.warp.dev/ge…

Still too much telemetry in my opinion. Is it possible to opt out, perhaps for a price?
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