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Mom handcuffed, jailed for 8-year-old son walking half a mile

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Re: Mom handcuffed, jailed for 8-year-old son walking half a mile

#401

Post by euroderf »

nineplay wrote: post #219
bhelkey wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Child services had the family agree to a safety plan, which meant Wallace and her husband could not be alone with their kids for even a second. Their mothers—the children's grandmothers—had to visit and trade-off overnight stays in order to guarantee the parents were constantly supervised. After two weeks, child services closed Wallace's case, finding the complaint was unfounded. This is the fault of the nosey neig…

When I write software, I know that users will do dumb things and it is my responsibility to write my code in such a way that they can cause no damage. The legal system should have similar responsibilities. If citizens can report crimes, some citizens will incorrectly report non-crimes. If the legal system can't handle that, the that is entirely the fault of the legal system.

I would rephrase it as, prosecutorial immunity must die.

Re: Mom handcuffed, jailed for 8-year-old son walking half a mile

#402

Post by kelseyfrog »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #317
kelseyfrog wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> who in their right mind calls the cops on a kid walking around his own neighborhood? I wish I knew. My children have had the cops called on them for playing in our front yard. I wish they could spend their afternoons climbing trees and playing in the grass like I did growing up, but there's a group of people who see children playing outside of direct parent supervision as a categorically dangerous activity. I'm alw…

> My children have had the cops called on them for playing in our front yard. Where do you live? Whenever I read these stories it feels like I live on a different planet from everyone else.

I live in a vast Californian suburb dominated by single family residences built in the 90s. The homes are priced around the median for the area. The residents are split about 50/50 politically and racially plural. The majority are married and earn ever so slightly below median income. It's about as average as you can get.

Note: I looked up these stats to make sure I got them right. They are mostly at the voting precinct, and census BG level, but I'm abstaining from posting them for obvious reasons.

Re: Mom handcuffed, jailed for 8-year-old son walking half a mile

#403

Post by cafard »

monological wrote: post #24

Japan has entered the chat... In Japan, children are encouraged from early age to be independent. They even take the subway and bus by themselves, albeit it's significantly safer there than in other parts of the world. Still though, I think people in America have gone off the deep end.

Kids in Washington, DC, often enough get themselves to school via Metrobus. I see them walk to the stop by themselves, three or four blocks in a quiet neighborhood.

Re: Mom handcuffed, jailed for 8-year-old son walking half a mile

#404

Post by emodendroket »

fluidcruft wrote: post #395
emodendroket wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems to me that if CPS immediately and preemptively puts you under a punitive regime like this (what happens if grandparents don't live nearby or just aren't alive? Oh well, not their problem I guess) for merely being reported, then it is a highly effective vehicle for harassing neighbors you don't like.

You can't really say what other alternatives were available beyond that this is what the family preferred. The grandparents were available and that's what they chose.

Do you think non-relatives are volunteering to supervise your parenting around the clock?

Re: Mom handcuffed, jailed for 8-year-old son walking half a mile

#405

Post by csours »

kgeist wrote: post #254
uoflcards22 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your kid is 3x more likely to be struck by lightning than kidnapped. Literally.

>According to statistics cited by the NCMEC, most missing children are abducted by relatives or parents It's safer to be around strangers than relatives, when it comes to kidnapping.

10 yard penalty, review logical fallacies, other team gets the ball.

https://xkcd.com/1138/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_rate_fallacy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecological_fallacy

Children spend waaaay more time around parents and relatives.

Same reason why you are more likely to be killed by an intimate partner than a stranger. (This is not monocausal, and I do not mean to imply that simply spending time with someone will cause a crime)

Re: Mom handcuffed, jailed for 8-year-old son walking half a mile

#406

Post by cool_dude85 »

SuoDuanDao wrote: post #382
cool_dude85 wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you want a lot of "Ron Swanson types", by which I infer you mean libertarians, getting involved in child protective services.

Why not?

Well, I personally believe that the logical outcome of libertarian thought as it regards kids is that a parent does not have the right to aggress against his children, but also that the parent should not have a legal obligation to feed, clothe, or educate his children, since such obligations would entail positive acts coerced upon the parent and depriving the parent of his rights. The parent therefore may not murder or mutilate his child, and the law properly outlaws a parent from doing so. But the parent should have the legal right not to feed the child, i.e., to allow it to die.

So that's one reason you wouldn't want a libertarian CPS agent.

Re: Mom handcuffed, jailed for 8-year-old son walking half a mile

#407

Post by rootusrootus »

NoImmatureAdHom wrote: post #176
klyrs wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every police interaction in the US bears the risk of death. Police will stop kids on the street with or without being called. Ergo, it is unsafe for children to walk to school in the US. Sure, that's all a bit circular, but good luck breaking the spiral with a "law and order" mentality.

This strikes me as crazy. Every interaction with any human or inanimate object bears the risk of death, it's just so low it's not worth thinking about it. U.S. police kill about ~1000 people per year, and the vast majority of those aren't at all questionable. If there are 330,000,000 people in the U.S., that's 0.000303% of the population per year. Each person has, on average, maybe 10 contentious police interactions…

> This strikes me as crazy.

Yes, it's basically bullshit in most of the US. Even knowing that the media feeds on clickbait and routinely hypes up everything that even smells like it could be controversial, people just lap it up. Even people here on HN.

Re: Mom handcuffed, jailed for 8-year-old son walking half a mile

#408

Post by yunwal »

NoImmatureAdHom wrote: post #176
klyrs wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every police interaction in the US bears the risk of death. Police will stop kids on the street with or without being called. Ergo, it is unsafe for children to walk to school in the US. Sure, that's all a bit circular, but good luck breaking the spiral with a "law and order" mentality.

This strikes me as crazy. Every interaction with any human or inanimate object bears the risk of death, it's just so low it's not worth thinking about it. U.S. police kill about ~1000 people per year, and the vast majority of those aren't at all questionable. If there are 330,000,000 people in the U.S., that's 0.000303% of the population per year. Each person has, on average, maybe 10 contentious police interactions…

The worry about police violence is really misplaced worry about the effects of a broken justice system. It's not just that police kill unarmed, non-violent black teens. It's that "they" (the justice system as a whole) also lock people up for non-violent drug offenses, put a felony on their record, condemning them to a life without job opportunities. Then "they" kick them out of their homes when they're late on their rent. Then they forcibly break up homeless encampments so people without homes can never feel safe or settled or have somewhere to sleep.

Police shootings are just a potent symbol for a much larger issue with the Justice System. The problem is that conversations about complex systemic issues become circular and conversations about symbols often don't.

Re: Mom handcuffed, jailed for 8-year-old son walking half a mile

#409

Post by fluidcruft »

scarby2 wrote: post #352
fluidcruft wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was only while they investigated (which I'm fine with). It's annoying but it's NOT a CPS horror story.

you would think someone would take a look at the allegation and determine that this was not necessary anyone with an ounce of sense knows that an 8 year old can walk half a mile on the street. Every parent within my hometown would be getting arrested. And god forbid when these people learn that we were riding the public bus service to and from school at 10 years old...

It certainly looks that way, but there are other factors at play such as the child being problematic and discipline being dumping him on the street to walk. It's not merely some kid playing in the neighborhood. Some car came to a stop and a kid was kicked out and there was likely yelling involved. It's certainly suspicious. Child abuse investigations aren't about one incident in isolation.

Re: Mom handcuffed, jailed for 8-year-old son walking half a mile

#410

Post by bluGill »

manmal wrote: post #347
bluGill wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is everywhere. For that matter every interaction with someone with a little martial arts training (even what you can find on the internet, though you will also find bad training) can be potential deadly. Most people have the ability to kill another human, few attempt it.

Risk of death during interaction with the police is practically zero where I live. Whenever that happens, it’s on the media for months or years.

It is practically zero almost everywhere. Iran is the only exception I can think of, and even then it is only protesters. (I'm sure there are other corrupt countries that I'm not aware of)
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