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Mom handcuffed, jailed for 8-year-old son walking half a mile

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Re: Mom handcuffed, jailed for 8-year-old son walking half a mile

#371
post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same concern can be voiced for 16 or 20 year old women and men. All of them can be abducted with ease by 2+ trained people. Should they also be accompanied by their moms at all times? The cop just demosntrated himself that he isnt doing his job and that there is something deeply wrong with society if a child cant even walk half a mile at 8 years old.

Recursive problem if that parents are young: a 2 year old in public with its 20 year old father could be required to have a 50 year old present at all times.

50 year olds are getting on the old side. Could easily be taken down by an in-shape mid-20s person. Best solution is for everyone to just travel with their own pack of trained wolves.

Re: Mom handcuffed, jailed for 8-year-old son walking half a mile

#372
I think is a symptom of a larger problem - that kids today are treated like mindless idiots generally.

Adults today seem to increasingly act like kids are unable to do practically anything independently, and worse, they act like they can't be trusted to anything of any importance or with any level of risk. And I'd argue that attuite is having an effect on our children because they also seem to be less independent and less capable than I remember me or my friends being when I was a kid.

I suppose a good example of what I'm talking about was couple of years ago I was at the park with my family and one of the children we were with dropped a ball in the lake. As you can imagine he was upset so instinctively ran over to us crying about losing his ball. My girlfriend's response was to ask me to get his ball back, but in my opinion this is exactly the kind of situation kids should be encouraged to solve on their own. And more importantly that adults should give kids room to solve with supervision.

Before I continue, it's probably worth noting that this lake was very shallow and the only real risk here was him falling in and getting a bit muddy, and in any case we were about 10 meters away so nothing bad was going to happen. Given this I said to him I wouldn't get his ball, but that instead I'd come over with him and help him find a way to get the ball back himself. So we went over to the ball and I asked him to come up with a plan to get the ball back himself and within a few seconds he found long stick and fished his ball out.

In my opinion the only reason he didn't get a stick and fish it out to begin with was because like most kids his age he's been encouraged to see himself as helpless and incapable of solving his own problems. This wasn't a capability or safety thing, it was purely an issue of mindset.

I've told this story a few times before and it's interesting to me that a lot of people (including my girlfriend) think that what I did was irresponsible and have told me to stop encouraging stuff like this because I'm going to get the kids hurt. And I think that's part of the problem. As a society we tell ourselves (and each other) that we're bad parents if we put our kids in any danger whatsoever. But I think this comes at the cost of our children being less independent and less resilient.

If I recall correctly Richard Branson has an interesting chapter about this in his book, Losing My Virginity. In his case I think he talks about how his mum would kick him out of the car as a kid and make him find his own way home to teach him how to be independent and self-reliant. I'm not sure I agree with what she did personally, but it's interesting that Branson seems to attribute a lot of his success to his mum and how she raised him.

Re: Mom handcuffed, jailed for 8-year-old son walking half a mile

#373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is the fault of the nosey neighbor Only in the most unproductive way. You're not going to fix the problem by exterminating all nosy neighbors. If your new roof leaks when it rains, it's not the rain's fault, blame it on the person who builds roofs ignoring the unavoidable fact that rain will eventually fall.

those "nosey neighbours" are why these stupid rules exist in the first place

No, child abuse is why these rules exist. They may not be calibrated well because they overreach from prevention to prescription (from telling you how not to treat your child to telling you how you should treat your child), but they're a necessity.

The first people to decide that child welfare was important were anti-animal cruelty organizations, so any protection for children is new and not at all obvious or intrinsic to us.

Re: Mom handcuffed, jailed for 8-year-old son walking half a mile

#374
post #61

Japan has entered the chat... In Japan, children are encouraged from early age to be independent. They even take the subway and bus by themselves, albeit it's significantly safer there than in other parts of the world. Still though, I think people in America have gone off the deep end.

Its funny, because I see young-ish kids alone or in small groups walking around all the time in Brooklyn. Between 2:30 and 4:00 PM the sidewalks around my apartment are choked with unaccompanied kids.

I live in Manhattan and my wife and I just had our first kid a few weeks ago. We've been talking about it for months now, but we want our kid to have that kind of independence and familiarity with the city. On one hand it's good for their development and on another hand it just seems practical that they be able to navigate the city on their own for safety reasons.

I've offended a lot of suburban friends and family though, because they don't understand how we could raise a child in NYC let alone give them any kind of independence. I've been told that it's irresponsible, that I'll be endangering him, and that I'm crazy to think the city is a safe place for a child, among other things.

Re: Mom handcuffed, jailed for 8-year-old son walking half a mile

#375
post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fundamentally it's the fault of the politicians who passed the law and the people who voted for them. If you don't want to be arrested for breaking a stupid law, vote for someone who will repeal it. Sure the police could in theory neglect to do their job which is enforcing the law but then they'd probably just get fired and replaced by police who did do their job.

> Fundamentally it's the fault of the politicians who passed the law and the people who voted for them. But this way beyond what the law was intended for. It was passed in 1973, and there's no way that in 1973 lawmakers would think it should be used against this mother. Any law can be overzealously enforced.

laws have to be written with that in mind and have as limited a scope as possible.

Re: Mom handcuffed, jailed for 8-year-old son walking half a mile

#376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That was only while they investigated (which I'm fine with). I’m not; there should be some reasonable basis for this level of intrusion, which there was not (note that the facts of the report were true and confirmed and still did not violate family law that CPS enforces; this isn't a case where someone reported something which would have warranted CPS intervention if confirmed.)

How could CPS possibly know that before they investigate?

It seems to me that if CPS immediately and preemptively puts you under a punitive regime like this (what happens if grandparents don't live nearby or just aren't alive? Oh well, not their problem I guess) for merely being reported, then it is a highly effective vehicle for harassing neighbors you don't like.

Re: Mom handcuffed, jailed for 8-year-old son walking half a mile

#378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is the fault of the nosey neighbor Only in the most unproductive way. You're not going to fix the problem by exterminating all nosy neighbors. If your new roof leaks when it rains, it's not the rain's fault, blame it on the person who builds roofs ignoring the unavoidable fact that rain will eventually fall.

But rain has no brain, it goes down the drain. Planning for nature and planning for failure aren’t exactly the same. And too much planning for failure when there are missed opportunities to plan for success, well, it leads to failure. If you drove it off the lot, an unrelated point is made.

I don't understand what you're saying, but nosy neighbors are as inevitable as the rain, both are entirely natural, and planning that assumes that either will ever disappear is already a failure.

Re: Mom handcuffed, jailed for 8-year-old son walking half a mile

#379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How could CPS possibly know that before they investigate?

> How could CPS possibly know that before they investigate? The same way they knew when the investigation confirmed the initial report, and it wasn't a violation.

So... by investigating? lol

Re: Mom handcuffed, jailed for 8-year-old son walking half a mile

#380
insane that she chose to plead guilty, here's the Texas child endangerment law that the prosecution would've needed to prove...

"Under Texas law child endangerment is "any act that exposes a child under the age of 15 to imminent risk of death, bodily harm or physical or mental impairment." The act may be intentional or reckless or may be considered criminally negligent behavior carried out by an act of omission.

For example, a person may be guilty of endangering a child if the child was not wearing a seat belt at the time of an automobile accident. Other acts that may be considered child endangerment include (1) leaving a child unattended in a motor vehicle, (2) driving while intoxicated with a child in the automobile, (3) hiring a person with a known history of sexual offense as a child care provider, (4) serving alcohol to an underage driver, (5) leaving a young child unsupervised or in the care of another young child, (6) unreasonable corporal punishment resulting in bodily injury, (7) leaving a young child unsupervised in an unsafe area, (8) leaving handguns within the reach of children, and (8) and failure to report suspected child abuse."

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