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U.S. fines airlines more than $7M for not providing refunds

nytimes.com

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Re: U.S. fines airlines more than $7M for not providing refunds

#171

Post by mullen »

cnelsenmilt wrote: post #47
pjc50 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It strikes me as remarkable that, in a pandemic which killed several hundred airliners worth of Americans, a lot of fuss was made about mask-related impositions, while TSA-related impositions that save a number of lives that's close to zero have become entirely normal. All War On Terror and no War On Viruses.

People objected to the TSA, but the political climate in 2002 was too much in favor of it.

Everyone is against government security until a bunch of guys fly airplanes into buildings.

Re: U.S. fines airlines more than $7M for not providing refunds

#172

Post by stavros »

whatwherewhy wrote: post #167
stavros wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree that the US is stricter, the EU has gotten strict as well. There are millimeter-wave scanners in many airports (usually mandatory with an opt-out pat-down, but in some airports you have a chance to just go through the metal detectors), sometimes they make you take your shoes off, X-raying takes ages. The US is stricter only in the sense that the TSA is everywhere all the time, whereas in Europe it's onl…

> At least in Europe you don't have some highschool dropout rifle through your luggage and leave your suitcase open, though (that's happened to me in the US). No but the people putting the suitcase - that you had to take apart yourself - through the scanner will steal things from you - my credit card and powerbank went missing during the process this summer.

What do you mean take apart? When taking your laptop out? I just close it again, that limits opportunistic theft by a lot (though you're the first person I hear having stuff stolen from).

Re: U.S. fines airlines more than $7M for not providing refunds

#173

Post by throwaway2037 »

beebmam wrote: post #129
pjc50 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It strikes me as remarkable that, in a pandemic which killed several hundred airliners worth of Americans, a lot of fuss was made about mask-related impositions, while TSA-related impositions that save a number of lives that's close to zero have become entirely normal. All War On Terror and no War On Viruses.

The problem fundamentally with the mask debate is that surgical masks barely make a difference in transmission. If we were serious about mask wearing to prevent respiratory viral transmission, we would be wearing well-fit N95s like 3M Auras, which are virtually impossible to fit improperly and are way more comfortable than surgical masks. They are also far more effective at preventing airborne/droplet viral transmiss…

Are you suggesting that less than N95 masks do not reduce COVID-19 transmission?

Re: U.S. fines airlines more than $7M for not providing refunds

#174

Post by throwaway2037 »

ThunderSizzle wrote: post #155
tastyfreeze wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Airport security was much better when it was private security not government security. At least privately security had alignment with airport customer service. Airports just have to deal with TSA BS now. I like to remind people, especially kids that don't know different, that the TSA was imposed on us and air travel used to be so much better.

It's actually one of the reasons I'm hesitant at being pro-public transit. Last thing I need is a TSA equivalent pat down for entering a bus or metro because the government decided it wants to.

Have you ever travelled to and taken mass transit in Israel? This is common.

Re: U.S. fines airlines more than $7M for not providing refunds

#175

Post by whatwherewhy »

stavros wrote: post #172
whatwherewhy wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At least in Europe you don't have some highschool dropout rifle through your luggage and leave your suitcase open, though (that's happened to me in the US). No but the people putting the suitcase - that you had to take apart yourself - through the scanner will steal things from you - my credit card and powerbank went missing during the process this summer.

What do you mean take apart? When taking your laptop out? I just close it again, that limits opportunistic theft by a lot (though you're the first person I hear having stuff stolen from).

Yeah, I took it out, closed the suitcase and send the boxes on their way. Then they forced me to open it up again and take out my camera, chargers and some cables etc too, I guess they took it during this.

Re: U.S. fines airlines more than $7M for not providing refunds

#176

Post by throwaway2037 »

ThunderSizzle wrote: post #160
TecoAndJix wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what you get for not arriving at the airport six hours before your flight /s

Sad thing is that the system constantly says that unsarcastically. Airlines, TSA, and airport messaging constantly remind me to be hours early and to anticipate long security lines.

Real question / Zero trolling: For your travel situaton, is it possible to not fly?

Re: U.S. fines airlines more than $7M for not providing refunds

#177

Post by ghaff »

stavros wrote: post #145
banannaise wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I heard some official talking about how airlines shouldn't be allowed to charge you until you step on the plane, which sounds like a brilliant solution to me. This sounds insane until you realize that this is essentially how hotels work. You pay a deposit, and the rest isn't owed until you are physically in the hotel.

> This sounds insane until you realize that this is essentially how hotels work. Or everything else . Trains, taxis, restaurants, everything. How many institutions do you know where you can't buy a ticket at the door, and instead have to prepay?

Hotels do tend to have a cancelation policy though (which is increasingly a day or two in advance rather than 6pm day of even for for not-charged-in-advance flexible reservations). You pay in advance for tons of other services (concerts, plays, etc.) and they're often non-refundable. Trains and transit also pay in advance in my experience. The main difference with planes is that, while you can pay for a ticket at the airport, it will be expensive, there's a decent chance they won't have a seat, and you'll get the worst seat choice.

Yes, there are a few services you post-pay like restaurants and taxis but you probably don't want to make a practice of running out on your bill.

Rental cars are something of an outlier in that, in the US, you can mostly book with major brands and just not show up with no penalty.

Re: U.S. fines airlines more than $7M for not providing refunds

#178

Post by xeromal »

ranUltra wrote: post #98

Another case where EU has this settled. If an airline cancels a flight, they are obligated to refund the money in the same payment method, or book another flight, depending what the passenger chooses. They have to provide accommodation in a hotel if needed & you can request compensation up to 600 euros if the cancellation/delay was done in short notice.

The US has solid flyer protections. The fact this article is about airlines being fined for ignoring the law shows that they're doing their job.

Re: U.S. fines airlines more than $7M for not providing refunds

#179

Post by dfxm12 »

pjc50 wrote: post #33
MichaelCollins wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> major TSA delays. This infuriates me. Last week I was stuck in line for TSA for an hour and a half at Sea-Tac. The TSA clowns had one guy looking at the X-rays of luggage at the speed of molasses. Am I to believe that the TSA, FAA and airlines can't coordinate to determine when gluts of incoming passengers are expected? Bullshit. Why didn't they have more TSA workers on shift? Because they don't give a shit, nothin…

It strikes me as remarkable that, in a pandemic which killed several hundred airliners worth of Americans, a lot of fuss was made about mask-related impositions, while TSA-related impositions that save a number of lives that's close to zero have become entirely normal. All War On Terror and no War On Viruses.

Someone decided to make masks a partisan issue. TSA enjoys pretty much bi-partisan support from politicians.

Re: U.S. fines airlines more than $7M for not providing refunds

#180

Post by stavros »

ghaff wrote: post #177
stavros wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This sounds insane until you realize that this is essentially how hotels work. Or everything else . Trains, taxis, restaurants, everything. How many institutions do you know where you can't buy a ticket at the door, and instead have to prepay?

Hotels do tend to have a cancelation policy though (which is increasingly a day or two in advance rather than 6pm day of even for for not-charged-in-advance flexible reservations). You pay in advance for tons of other services (concerts, plays, etc.) and they're often non-refundable. Trains and transit also pay in advance in my experience. The main difference with planes is that, while you can pay for a ticket at the…

It's not about prepay VS postpay, though. It's about whether you HAVE to prebuy or whether you can pay at the door. Planes don't have the option to just show up and buy a ticket.
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