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U.S. fines airlines more than $7M for not providing refunds

nytimes.com

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Re: U.S. fines airlines more than $7M for not providing refunds

#101

Post by banannaise »

FigurativeVoid wrote: post #90
mcculley wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And now they are like other bad organizations (e.g., police departments that have a history of shooting unarmed people) in the respect that nobody wants to be associated with them, so they can only recruit from the bottom.

They also don't get paid when we have budget legislation. Who would want to work in a place like that?

Paying more for a job already designed to attract terrible people will still attract the same terrible people, it will just make them richer. Again, see police departments.

You can see a different sort of example in teaching: teachers put up with terrible pay for a long time, but now they're quitting in droves because of terrible work conditions and lack of emotional fulfillment.

You have to change the nature of the job from something designed around theater and blustering to something actually useful. The pay is never the problem, it's that the jobs are bullshit. Although once the jobs are no longer bullshit, we should probably pay them better.

Re: U.S. fines airlines more than $7M for not providing refunds

#102

Post by JusticeJuice »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #80
JusticeJuice wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was just so over it, I took the $24 and treated it as a lesson. I talked to a manager, but I couldn't be fucked doing more than that - I wasn't strapped for cash. If I was in my home turf, with a legal system I knew maybe I'd fight it more, but I was a tourist.

> with a legal system I knew maybe I'd fight it more For future reference, Airhelp will fight it for you [1]. [1] https://www.airhelp.com/en/

A private company startup to protect consumer rights from other private companies? Easily most American thing I've seen this week.

Re: U.S. fines airlines more than $7M for not providing refunds

#103

Post by kylehotchkiss »

mtalantikite wrote: post #53

I have a voucher from a cancelled flight on JetBlue stuck in the abyss of their computer systems. In order to use it I've been told I have to call, but the wait times are hours long. I can use their text message interface on iOS to get someone to call me back instead of waiting on hold (which is nice), but the couple times I've tried there's been some ridiculous problem with actually using the voucher: They can't fin…

also if you book JetBlue and the flight changes at all (your change or theirs), you can never look at your reservation online again, the website and app break. Problem has existed for years, nobody wants to fix it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Re: U.S. fines airlines more than $7M for not providing refunds

#104

Post by Sylamore »

pjc50 wrote: post #33
MichaelCollins wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> major TSA delays. This infuriates me. Last week I was stuck in line for TSA for an hour and a half at Sea-Tac. The TSA clowns had one guy looking at the X-rays of luggage at the speed of molasses. Am I to believe that the TSA, FAA and airlines can't coordinate to determine when gluts of incoming passengers are expected? Bullshit. Why didn't they have more TSA workers on shift? Because they don't give a shit, nothin…

It strikes me as remarkable that, in a pandemic which killed several hundred airliners worth of Americans, a lot of fuss was made about mask-related impositions, while TSA-related impositions that save a number of lives that's close to zero have become entirely normal. All War On Terror and no War On Viruses.

I long ago concluded that TSA is mostly a jobs program, not a security program.

Re: U.S. fines airlines more than $7M for not providing refunds

#105

Post by Karunamon »

MichaelCollins wrote: post #45
phone8675309 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think anyone wants to be detained by the TSA and put on the no-fly list to call a TSA agent a fascist

I expect they would detain you, force you to miss your flight, but not actually fine you. Without actually charging you with anything despite the threats, they avoid having their bullshit rule challenged in court.

If I ever come into possession of fuck you money, I intend to set up an organization whose mission is to buy cheap plane tickets that people are not intended to fly on, and then pay and instruct people on how to screw with the TSA completely legally.

Re: U.S. fines airlines more than $7M for not providing refunds

#106

Post by pooper »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #83
pjc50 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It strikes me as remarkable that, in a pandemic which killed several hundred airliners worth of Americans, a lot of fuss was made about mask-related impositions, while TSA-related impositions that save a number of lives that's close to zero have become entirely normal. All War On Terror and no War On Viruses.

> while TSA-related impositions that save a number of lives that's close to zero Are there any good estimates of the total economic costs of this security theatre?

I don't know about the cost but the benefit is close to zero, if not zero. I am positive that the net benefit (because cost is surely positive) is negative accounting even for the number of jobs it creates.

> The source did not give an exact number, but said the failure rate was close to 80 percent. Members of Congress called the results "disturbing" in a public hearing following a private, classified briefing to the House Committee on Homeland Security.

https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/articles/2017-11-0...

archived at https://web.archive.org/web/20221116171835/https://www.usnew... https://archive.ph/hzA1y

Re: U.S. fines airlines more than $7M for not providing refunds

#107

Post by idlehand »

ranUltra wrote: post #98

Another case where EU has this settled. If an airline cancels a flight, they are obligated to refund the money in the same payment method, or book another flight, depending what the passenger chooses. They have to provide accommodation in a hotel if needed & you can request compensation up to 600 euros if the cancellation/delay was done in short notice.

The EU isn't quite there yet, see the issues with refund processing times during covid for an example. I heard some official talking about how airlines shouldn't be allowed to charge you until you step on the plane, which sounds like a brilliant solution to me.

Don't have to fight the airline for compensation for a flight that was cancelled if the airline doesn't have your money yet.

Re: U.S. fines airlines more than $7M for not providing refunds

#108

Post by tastyfreeze »

ISL wrote: post #73
1024core wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Am I to believe that the TSA, FAA and airlines can't coordinate to determine when gluts of incoming passengers are expected? Same with the Customs and Immigration Services (the passport checkers) at SFO. I have seen lines going out to the walkway (leading into the big room). I can't even imagine traveling with a couple of little children; there's no restroom in that big hall. By law, these people get full passenger…

Perhaps they're trying to hire, but either the labor market is tight or they're not able to offer enough to get people to take the job. GP's desire to berate TSA agents, for example, suggests that job-satisfaction might not be real high.

My friend that worked TSA for a few years said it was the worst job he has ever had.

Re: U.S. fines airlines more than $7M for not providing refunds

#109

Post by banannaise »

pxx wrote: post #26
mattwad wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are the scum of the universe. If you don't pay for your seats, they will separate you and your party even if there are available seats together, because they know you'll shell out cash to fix it. (I think American does this now too, and possibly others but I haven't confirmed they also do it when there's available seats).

I'm actually fairly upset when airlines _don't_ do this. They're just leaving money on the table. If you want to pick your seat, pay for it.

"We will actively make your life worse unless you pay us a premium in exchange for not doing that" is a terrible way to run any part of a society. If that's just how businesses are expected to behave, then we need to find ways to change that as a society.
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