Live data from Hacker News

Tesla has used space characters in internal emails to identify leaks

twitter.com

261–270 of 448 posts

Re: Tesla has used space characters in internal emails to identify leaks

#261
post #64

Microsoft used the same idea to caught leakers working with the new dashboard for the xbox360: https://www.gamerevolution.com/news/469221-how-microsoft-cau... The difference is that in the 360 dashboard they used "decorative" rings to encode the information.

This sounds interesting. Sadly the link (to the tweet) in that article is broken. This appears to be a screenshot of the tweet in question: https://old.reddit.com/r/xboxone/comments/a4y3n8

Re: Tesla has used space characters in internal emails to identify leaks

#262
post #254
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He searched the printer logs . Presumably when Word sends stuff to the printer, it doesn't bother with all the extraneous garbage it puts in files. Printer communication hasn't changed much in decades.

If he had access to printer logs, he would know exactly what everyone printed and when they did it. Networked printers store a lot of information about what is being printed.

In general a lot of metadata is kept, but very rarely is the full print content kept (though in some organizations it may be for security review). The difficulty here is figuring what metadata is relevant, in this case size was the most important.

Re: Tesla has used space characters in internal emails to identify leaks

#263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The simplest answer is that this didn’t happen and it’s just a myth.

Honestly speaking, the story sounds somewhat believable to me. They likely misidentified the leaker with that silly analysis and fired them on the spot, would be just the usual modus operandi of musk.

How likely is it that there would just happen to be a file with exactly the same wrong size in the printer logs?

Re: Tesla has used space characters in internal emails to identify leaks

#264

It’s called whitespace watermarking and seems to be one of those ideas that keeps getting re-invented. It’s used a lot, particularly in HTML where the rendering hides the identifying spaces. It can help you figure out if someone is scrapping your content.

Genius used a similar technique to check whether Google was scraping their lyrics. Apostrophes in selected song lyrics spelled out "red-handed" in morse code. https://www.pcmag.com/news/genius-we-caught-google-red-hande...

Interesting... Google caught out Bing stealing search results a number of years before that - https://searchengineland.com/google-bing-is-cheating-copying...

I guess engineers at Google have too short of tenure to actually remember the precedent.

Re: Tesla has used space characters in internal emails to identify leaks

#265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still. He’d have to have the same normal.dot, make the same space/tab choices, same fonts, etc. And in a large company, how many ~1 page letters get printed? What are the odds that there is only a single match in the entire company? I take this story similar to the binary coded space story: more likely to be apocryphal and promoted to deter future leakers than true stories about catching them in the past.

Perhaps it wasn't an exact byte match, but close enough to only 1 print job size within a reasonable time frame.

Certainly possible, but also relies on the assumption that this was done on company equipment. When leaking info under a vindictive boss I would think opsec rule #1 is avoid company equipment as much as possible. Even without a printer at home, it's quite easy to send a print job to a local office or shipping store.

Re: Tesla has used space characters in internal emails to identify leaks

#266
post #8

Why do people still work at Tesla, or does this toxic behavior attract toxic employees? I guess that seems to be the case, if you read about Uber under Kalanick, or employees crying in bathrooms at Amazon. Before that tweet the thread is talking about an email Musk sent: > Scoop: Elon Musk just sent an email to all staff outlining "Twitter 2.0", writing it will"need to be extremely hardcore". Long hours, high intensi…

Man, that sounds pretty sweet 3 months of severance, after a good 6+ month run of lame duck employment where the whole company didn't really do anything. I could take my time and buy a nice house out in the Midwest, then pick up an easy remote job for $100-150k I guess it's a different story if you dumped your life savings into a down payment and now you have to keep up with an $8000 Bay Area mortgage though

> I could take my time and buy a nice house out in the Midwest

You're not buying a house of any kind (let alone nice) with 3 months severance after taxes and day to day living expenses.

Re: Tesla has used space characters in internal emails to identify leaks

#268
post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think such a company would equally want to not retain such records (at least not indefinitely), for fear of discovery in legal processes, etc.

Or most likely laziness.

Or a fortuitous combination of the two...

Re: Tesla has used space characters in internal emails to identify leaks

#269
post #43

Ashlee Vance's biography of Musk (from a few years ago) had a fun similar story. Someone inside Tesla wrote a letter, I believe complaining about product defects, which was printed by a media outlet. Figuring that the leaker printed the letter at Tesla offices (i.e. likely didn't have a printer at home), Musk re-typed the letter in Word, found out exactly how many kilobytes a Word file with that exact text would be,…

Moral of the story, if you’re about to leak data, don’t use a company printer. Or, for that matter, anything that would log that leak and could be traced to you.

Like other commenters, I find it hard to believe that this actually happened.

Re: Tesla has used space characters in internal emails to identify leaks

#270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon returns no longer require printing out labels, so someone who does most/all their online ordering via Amazon wouldn't need a printer.

I need to print return stickers for Amazon in EU.

Interesting. I’m germany we love paper but amazon returns work without the need to print a label at home.
Post reply on HN