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Companies ran an experiment: Pay workers their full salary to work fewer days

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Re: Companies ran an experiment: Pay workers their full salary to work fewer days

#61

Post by wil421 »

Tyrek wrote: post #18
MEMORYC_RRUPTED wrote: post #7

This won't be valid for everyone, but I'm getting more and more convinced that most (a lot of?) people don't "work" work 40 hours anyway. I'm not even mentally capable of doing 40 intense hours of focussed work. Not saying I don't have other tasks besides coding/thinking in that time, but honestly not for the full slot of time. It just feels to me like some sort of secret we all share and pretend like it's fine, but…

If we "actually work" 32 hours out of 40 (80%), what is the likelihood that if we shift to a 32 hour max week, that the average person will only "actually work" ~26 hours (80% of 32) in this hypothetical future? What if at least part of the 20% is spent doing social activities, water cooler conversations, etc. that enable the remaining 80% to flow more efficiently?

Because I’ll have a week day to do everything I need to do. Also I would push back or not attend meetings where I’m not needed. Team meetings and collaboration would still happen. A lot of people have to do late or weekend deployments and it would take the stress off of a lot of IT workers in all areas.

Re: Companies ran an experiment: Pay workers their full salary to work fewer days

#62

Post by treeman79 »

mc32 wrote: post #20
MEMORYC_RRUPTED wrote: post #7

This won't be valid for everyone, but I'm getting more and more convinced that most (a lot of?) people don't "work" work 40 hours anyway. I'm not even mentally capable of doing 40 intense hours of focussed work. Not saying I don't have other tasks besides coding/thinking in that time, but honestly not for the full slot of time. It just feels to me like some sort of secret we all share and pretend like it's fine, but…

I agree we don't put in a full 40 hours. Unless someone is working a 1950's style assembly line (meatpacking plant for example) few will put in those 40 hours even in manual labor ---you're chatting, playing around, etc. for some time. White collar work, is of course, way worse. There is a lot of slack time in between tasks and meetings and so on. So during those 40 hours, let's say a person delivers 100 work units.…

Wife’s a teacher. 40-60 hours at school. 10-30 hours outside of work doing lesson plans, report card comments etc. Always responding to emails from parents.

She Has collapsed before when total was getting above 80 for several weeks.

They want to promote her to VP. They work even more hours then she does.

I make more then triple what she does.

Re: Companies ran an experiment: Pay workers their full salary to work fewer days

#63

Post by vlunkr »

MEMORYC_RRUPTED wrote: post #7

This won't be valid for everyone, but I'm getting more and more convinced that most (a lot of?) people don't "work" work 40 hours anyway. I'm not even mentally capable of doing 40 intense hours of focussed work. Not saying I don't have other tasks besides coding/thinking in that time, but honestly not for the full slot of time. It just feels to me like some sort of secret we all share and pretend like it's fine, but…

> It just feels to me like some sort of secret we all share

Yeah this is a pretty interesting phenomenon. I feel like as a kid I had no idea it would be this way, but every job I've worked, blue and white collar, has involved a lot of "time wasting." It's very surprising at first.

Re: Companies ran an experiment: Pay workers their full salary to work fewer days

#64

Post by vagrantJin »

tnel77 wrote: post #27
Tyrek wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we "actually work" 32 hours out of 40 (80%), what is the likelihood that if we shift to a 32 hour max week, that the average person will only "actually work" ~26 hours (80% of 32) in this hypothetical future? What if at least part of the 20% is spent doing social activities, water cooler conversations, etc. that enable the remaining 80% to flow more efficiently?

I’m all for a shorter workweek, but I definitely expect that the social aspect of a job is good for overall productivity. Maybe I’m weird, but I enjoy asking my coworkers how their weekend was prior to a meeting starting or (back when I was in the office) as we ran into each other in the hallway.

> I enjoy asking my coworkers how their weekend was prior to a meeting starting

It's foreplay but for work. Forework?

Re: Companies ran an experiment: Pay workers their full salary to work fewer days

#65

Post by soperj »

treeman79 wrote: post #62
mc32 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree we don't put in a full 40 hours. Unless someone is working a 1950's style assembly line (meatpacking plant for example) few will put in those 40 hours even in manual labor ---you're chatting, playing around, etc. for some time. White collar work, is of course, way worse. There is a lot of slack time in between tasks and meetings and so on. So during those 40 hours, let's say a person delivers 100 work units.…

Wife’s a teacher. 40-60 hours at school. 10-30 hours outside of work doing lesson plans, report card comments etc. Always responding to emails from parents. She Has collapsed before when total was getting above 80 for several weeks. They want to promote her to VP. They work even more hours then she does. I make more then triple what she does.

> 40-60 hours at school.

This part doesn't make sense to me, can you please explain (I'm genuinely asking). My children are in elementary school, and the day is from 8:45-2:30. I can understand being there at 8am(i definitely have seen teachers showing up later than this though), and when I've driven by the school at 3pm nearly all the cars are gone from the teachers lot (if not all). I can understand that there's a lot of work outside of school, but I don't understand how you could ever get to 60 hours at school.

Re: Companies ran an experiment: Pay workers their full salary to work fewer days

#66

Post by willcipriano »

soperj wrote: post #65
treeman79 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wife’s a teacher. 40-60 hours at school. 10-30 hours outside of work doing lesson plans, report card comments etc. Always responding to emails from parents. She Has collapsed before when total was getting above 80 for several weeks. They want to promote her to VP. They work even more hours then she does. I make more then triple what she does.

> 40-60 hours at school. This part doesn't make sense to me, can you please explain (I'm genuinely asking). My children are in elementary school, and the day is from 8:45-2:30. I can understand being there at 8am(i definitely have seen teachers showing up later than this though), and when I've driven by the school at 3pm nearly all the cars are gone from the teachers lot (if not all). I can understand that there's a…

Another fascinating thing about teacher claims of working hours is how technology apparently hasn't moved the needle at all. Lots of schools have moved to more and more online assignments that can be in large part automatically graded yet the time spend grading remains constant, or so they claim.

Re: Companies ran an experiment: Pay workers their full salary to work fewer days

#67

Post by acdha »

soperj wrote: post #65
treeman79 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wife’s a teacher. 40-60 hours at school. 10-30 hours outside of work doing lesson plans, report card comments etc. Always responding to emails from parents. She Has collapsed before when total was getting above 80 for several weeks. They want to promote her to VP. They work even more hours then she does. I make more then triple what she does.

> 40-60 hours at school. This part doesn't make sense to me, can you please explain (I'm genuinely asking). My children are in elementary school, and the day is from 8:45-2:30. I can understand being there at 8am(i definitely have seen teachers showing up later than this though), and when I've driven by the school at 3pm nearly all the cars are gone from the teachers lot (if not all). I can understand that there's a…

Office hours, tutoring, mandatory training, meetings, clubs, etc. can really add up.

My wife’s school is big on community, which is great in some ways but leads to long days with staff expected to attend dances, games, etc.

Re: Companies ran an experiment: Pay workers their full salary to work fewer days

#68

Post by SV_BubbleTime »

vjk800 wrote: post #32

I already work (remotely) much less than my contract says. I simply can't stay engaged to cognitively demanding tasks for a full day. The rest of the time I just feel kinda bad for slacking, which increases my stress levels for no good reason. If I got the permission to actually work less, I wouldn't feel so bad about it, which would probably lead to less stress and higher productivity. I work in finance and I can at…

>I already work (remotely) much less than my contract says. I simply can't stay engaged to cognitively demanding tasks for a full day. The rest of the time I just feel kinda bad for slacking, which increases my stress levels for no good reason. If I got the permission to actually work less, I wouldn't feel so bad about it, which would probably lead to less stress and higher productivity.

How do you know it wouldn't just allow you to slack down to working 24 hours a week and feeling the same degree of guilt you are accustomed to now?

I have no idea. It just reminds me of the saying about lottery winners "If you weren't happy before you won, you won't be happy afterwards".

Re: Companies ran an experiment: Pay workers their full salary to work fewer days

#69

Post by vidanay »

lucasyvas wrote: post #14
MEMORYC_RRUPTED wrote: post #7

This won't be valid for everyone, but I'm getting more and more convinced that most (a lot of?) people don't "work" work 40 hours anyway. I'm not even mentally capable of doing 40 intense hours of focussed work. Not saying I don't have other tasks besides coding/thinking in that time, but honestly not for the full slot of time. It just feels to me like some sort of secret we all share and pretend like it's fine, but…

Most remote jobs I've worked at, I can't reach anyone on Friday. Probably not a coincidence. Even years ago when I was in the office, everyone would go on insanely long lunch breaks on Friday instead. If you work an office job, I can assure you that the number of people actually working on Friday is statistically irrelevant.

"Never buy a car built on a Friday or a Monday."

Re: Companies ran an experiment: Pay workers their full salary to work fewer days

#70

Post by toomuchtodo »

ITB wrote: post #39

A lot of people have a goal to minimize work and maximize income, and for those people, no matter what flexibility they are given, they will continue to minimize productive work. It’s sad in my opinion, and it leads to hedonic pursuits instead of the intrinsic satisfaction that comes from doing good work. But for too many people work is about man vs “the man”, instead of our individual quest to do something interesti…

“Darling I told you several times before. I have no dream job, I do not dream of labor." — James Baldwin

Not everyone wants interesting work. That’s just a hobby you get paid for.

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