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Python 3.12.0 is to remove long-deprecated items

discuss.python.org

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Re: Python 3.12.0 is to remove long-deprecated items

#131

Post by synergy20 »

sciurus wrote: post #78
synergy20 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

`python3.10 -m venv` or `python3.11 -m venv` the default approach works fine and I don't need pip anything to get a virtualenv, what's the selling point of pyenv?

In your example, how did you install python 3.10 and 3.11? That's part of what pyenv solves for you.

it's very easy to install them, probably easier than learning pyenv but I have not tried. I just want to use the default settings as much as possible, they're guaranteed to stay as long as python is alive and typically have less surprises for me on daily coding.

Re: Python 3.12.0 is to remove long-deprecated items

#133

Post by qwezxcrty »

worldsavior wrote: post #103
nibbleshifter wrote: post #77

I see telnetlib is on the way out in 3.13 or so, which means a lot of pointless busywork in my future. Its a super useful module for a lot of tasks. The suggested replacements either are asyncio based (which means whole ass rewrites as asyncio is really fucking opinionated), or are excessively restrictive in some stupid way. "Infosec" at work tend to raise a ruckus when their scans detect "older" versions of Python o…

Telnet should not be used anymore. Its an old protocol, and not suitable for today especially in the case of security. You can easily migrate to ssh.

I have a 35k$ worth Xray flat panel detector (still have >5k$ ebay value today), it runs embedded linux on an obsolete samsung ARM processor and uses telnet to talk to the console computer through a point to point ethernet link.

Apparently, it's impossible to migrate to ssh and why the ** I need to care about security here?

Re: Python 3.12.0 is to remove long-deprecated items

#134

Post by worldsavior »

qwezxcrty wrote: post #133
worldsavior wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Telnet should not be used anymore. Its an old protocol, and not suitable for today especially in the case of security. You can easily migrate to ssh.

I have a 35k$ worth Xray flat panel detector (still have >5k$ ebay value today), it runs embedded linux on an obsolete samsung ARM processor and uses telnet to talk to the console computer through a point to point ethernet link. Apparently, it's impossible to migrate to ssh and why the ** I need to care about security here?

Didn't talk about old devices. Security can be very important in cases of connecting to other servers.

Re: Python 3.12.0 is to remove long-deprecated items

#135

Post by nicoco »

wakeupcall wrote: post #107

I'm normally joyful when a modern language (say, julia) decides to break backward compatibility to improve the language on a fundamental level. This is mostly because I'm not too vested in it. For languages where I have 10+ years of work behind, it's the exact opposite, and where I see the c/c++ model of not breaking backward compatibility a much saner choice. Python in particular is an extremely bittersweet pill to…

For a different perspective, I started using python about 5 years ago, and I never experienced a single breakage due to a new python release. Instead, I'm always excited to read new version releases notes and it's the only thing that may make me move away from debian stable someday. But waiting a few months, using containers, or compiling a newer python is usually fine when I can't wait.

Removing deprecated stuff is… the point of deprecating stuff?

Re: Python 3.12.0 is to remove long-deprecated items

#136

Post by nibbleshifter »

worldsavior wrote: post #103
nibbleshifter wrote: post #77

I see telnetlib is on the way out in 3.13 or so, which means a lot of pointless busywork in my future. Its a super useful module for a lot of tasks. The suggested replacements either are asyncio based (which means whole ass rewrites as asyncio is really fucking opinionated), or are excessively restrictive in some stupid way. "Infosec" at work tend to raise a ruckus when their scans detect "older" versions of Python o…

Telnet should not be used anymore. Its an old protocol, and not suitable for today especially in the case of security. You can easily migrate to ssh.

I mean, obviously we use SSH where possible.

But in many cases out in the real world we have to support frankly awful old equipment that only offers telnet (if you are lucky).

I don't think we will see the back of such things before 2030 either.

Re: Python 3.12.0 is to remove long-deprecated items

#137

Post by an-unknown »

worldsavior wrote: post #127
an-unknown wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure why everyone thinks that telnet is "not suitable for today especially in the case of security", although telnet over TLS exists. There are also certain things that telnet can do which SSH cannot (e.g. transport data for a block terminal). And everyone who uses "telnet as a program for connecting to a server on any port and talking the protocol manually" forgot that telnet is a real protocol and this type of…

Telnet does not have any standard security, at least by default. No encryption and no authentication among others.

This is factually wrong. There are even multiple different authentication and encryption schemes defined for telnet, see e.g.: https://www.iana.org/assignments/telnet-options/telnet-optio...

Just because some old and rudimentary telnetd or telnet client doesn't implement it doesn't mean it doesn't exist / isn't used.

Re: Python 3.12.0 is to remove long-deprecated items

#139

Post by acdha »

CJefferson wrote: post #106
drexlspivey wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should sign up to maintain those ancient modules

Several groups of people offered to maintain python 2. They were told very clearly they could not do so "officially", and we're even threatened with lawyers if their thing looked like it could be mistaken for "Python 2".

Do you have pointers to that? The one I saw was called “python 2.8” which is definitely a point of confusion for people who might think it was supported.

Re: Python 3.12.0 is to remove long-deprecated items

#140

Post by fred123 »

tbran wrote: post #27

This is a reminder that the excellent pyenv [0] project can help you manage all your Python versions. - Set global and per-project python versions - Not written in Python. - Shims your PATH - Linux, Mac, Windows [0]: https://github.com/pyenv/pyenv

Or just use Conda/Mamba.
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