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Ask HN: Anyone go through Montessori education until age 12 (end of grade 6)?

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Re: Ask HN: Anyone go through Montessori education until age 12 (end of grade 6)?

#81

Post by WastingMyTime89 »

JustAPerson wrote: post #27

Yes, I went to a Montessori school through 6th grade (now 25 years old). I have mixed feelings about the experience. I agree that it did well to set my up academically. I ended up going to middle/high schools that were relatively average academically, so I was pretty strong in all subjects in comparison to my peers. Ultimately I went to a very prestigious college and now work in a wonderful finance job I love. Howeve…

> Every year, maybe one or two kids left to go to other schools and one or two new kids joined, but for the most part I grew up with the same core set of children for seven years. I honestly believe this had a permanent negative effect on my ability to socialize and form new friendships that I am only barely beginning to correct over a decade later.

While I believe your experience to be entirely legitimate, what you are describing is the norm throughout most of Europe and I can assure you that most of us are socially adjusted (or at least somewhat socially adjusted).

Re: Ask HN: Anyone go through Montessori education until age 12 (end of grade 6)?

#82

Post by rodelrod »

sedeki wrote: post #54
krn1p4n1c wrote: post #15

Both my kids transitioned from Montessori to public school at 11 (grade 5) in the US. 13 and 16 now. + Love of learning and self-driven discovery + Top of class in pretty much all subjects + Comfortable giving presentations + Comfortable working in groups + At ease working with younger students/children and essentially mentoring them + Excellent handwriting + Respect for teachers - Difficulty with testing that involv…

> - Difficult transition to the cliques and more aggressive social dynamics of public school Am I naive in thinking that the aggressive social dynamics of public school adds no value whatsoever to a child's or teenager's development? Like, _why_ would anyone want to put their children through that? Is it _really_ integral to a person's social development to understand how to interact with bullies (worst case)? I admi…

I spent two years in a rough-ish public school. It was the hardest period in my life but it taught me very much about valuing people from all walks of life and especially on adapting my behavior to get positive outcomes in any social setting. I can absolutely see how that experience is lacking on some of my friends that spent all their lives in protected environments.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone go through Montessori education until age 12 (end of grade 6)?

#83

Post by alexb_ »

deathclassic wrote: post #31
phonescreen_man wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“ Should be noted also that my kids are extremely naturally gifted and generally live in the "AP/Honors" world, so would most likely flourish anywhere. YMMV” All children are extremely naturally gifted, it’s the world around that always manages to grind it out of most of them. I think that also represents what Montessori was aiming for when re-thinking education.

"All children are extremely naturally gifted, it’s the world around that always manages to grind it out of most of them." What a load of horseshit. Say that in the special education class with 8th graders that can't read or use the bathroom on their own, despite the best efforts and attention of their teachers.

Responding to a post saying children are naturally smart and gifted with "Well what about the disabled children?" isn't helpful to anybody, and purposefully misses the point of what they are saying.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone go through Montessori education until age 12 (end of grade 6)?

#84

Post by jterrys »

sedeki wrote: post #74
krn1p4n1c wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that a lot of it's needless and painful, but there's some merit in knowing how to defend yourself (physically, mentally and emotionally). There's a lot of the petty BS that you learn from in school that transposes to adult life. I hate watching my kids deal with it, but I'd be remiss in raising them if I didn't prepare them for that.

But why do they need this from public school over say any other social ... activity (?). For example sports. I am genuinely questioning whether public school makes children socially mature rather than only being a traumatic experience for many pupils, for no other reason than that public schooling is the default choice.

No you're right, there is no other reason than public schooling being the default choice. Which is why its necessary. It's self fulfilling.

It's the choice that everyone goes through. So unless you want your children to be unable to adapt to the people that were shaped through that horrible system, you will need to introduce them to that system in some capacity. Sports are not really enough. School is like day job for kids until they're 18. Everyone goes through the same standardized garbage, and they will have to live their lives with other people who went through the same standardized garbage.

Your only choice is to pay exorbitantly so they don't go through that garbage, but will face adulthood with 99% of the population that did, which can have mixed results.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone go through Montessori education until age 12 (end of grade 6)?

#85

Post by alexb_ »

I'm curious as to what the "failure state" of a Montessori education is. There's a lot to support that good Montessori teachers are better than good "traditional" schoolteachers, but what about the bad teachers? Assessing a system based on good conditions only can miss a lot - anyone here have a bad teacher while going through one of these programs?

Re: Ask HN: Anyone go through Montessori education until age 12 (end of grade 6)?

#86

Post by Moissanite »

JustAPerson wrote: post #72
Moissanite wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had never heard of Montessori schools before this thread so I'm sure there is more going on than I'm aware of - but I wanted to point out that what you describe here: > school had about 15-25 kids / class year. Some of the larger years were split into two groups with separate teachers. Every year, maybe one or two kids left to go to other schools and one or two new kids joined, but for the most part I grew up with…

Huh, is that the maximum number of students of the same age? To be clear, the Montessori school I went to had a little over 100 students with all 6 class years combined. For context, in the US many public middle/high schools are like two orders of magnitude larger per class year. Many schools have like 1000 kids / class year.

It would be fairly typical for a UK primary school (up to age 11) to have up to 30 kids per class, but only 1 class per year - so ~210 kids total. Some schools have 2 classes per year, so double that for 400-500 in the whole school - but that many is rare in my experience.

Secondary school (11-16) is more commonly around 30 per class, 7-12 classes per year, 5 year groups in the school - so 1000-1500 kids. 16-18 can either be at the school (which would then be a smaller cohort than the 15-16 year group due to some people going elsewhere), or an external college which is highly variable in size.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone go through Montessori education until age 12 (end of grade 6)?

#87

Post by WastingMyTime89 »

JustAPerson wrote: post #72
Moissanite wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had never heard of Montessori schools before this thread so I'm sure there is more going on than I'm aware of - but I wanted to point out that what you describe here: > school had about 15-25 kids / class year. Some of the larger years were split into two groups with separate teachers. Every year, maybe one or two kids left to go to other schools and one or two new kids joined, but for the most part I grew up with…

Huh, is that the maximum number of students of the same age? To be clear, the Montessori school I went to had a little over 100 students with all 6 class years combined. For context, in the US many public middle/high schools are like two orders of magnitude larger per class year. Many schools have like 1000 kids / class year.

In France, a typical primary school will have between 100 and 200 kids total maybe 250 in Paris but that would be a large one. A middle school will be between 400 and 800 students and a high school around 1000.

1000 kids / class year is unheard of. That seems huge to me to the point I can’t understand how it would work. I knew mostly everyone in my class year up to high school and even then I probably knew more than half. Might explain why the social scene is far less brutal here than in the US.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone go through Montessori education until age 12 (end of grade 6)?

#88

Post by krn1p4n1c »

sedeki wrote: post #74
krn1p4n1c wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that a lot of it's needless and painful, but there's some merit in knowing how to defend yourself (physically, mentally and emotionally). There's a lot of the petty BS that you learn from in school that transposes to adult life. I hate watching my kids deal with it, but I'd be remiss in raising them if I didn't prepare them for that.

But why do they need this from public school over say any other social ... activity (?). For example sports. I am genuinely questioning whether public school makes children socially mature rather than only being a traumatic experience for many pupils, for no other reason than that public schooling is the default choice.

What school does is provide an environment of ~8hrs/day to pressure test their social skills and build coping mechanisms (good and bad). You do get that to a lesser degree from other environments such as sports and in the end it's all transferable learning. Playing on a team vs training an individual sport with a club gives very different social lessons and shapes them accordingly.

But I don't think school is what makes them mature as much as it's the adults that they look up to and emulate that shape that. And whether it traumatic can depend on how they're able to internalize it.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone go through Montessori education until age 12 (end of grade 6)?

#90

Post by gwnywg »

sedeki wrote: post #54
krn1p4n1c wrote: post #15

Both my kids transitioned from Montessori to public school at 11 (grade 5) in the US. 13 and 16 now. + Love of learning and self-driven discovery + Top of class in pretty much all subjects + Comfortable giving presentations + Comfortable working in groups + At ease working with younger students/children and essentially mentoring them + Excellent handwriting + Respect for teachers - Difficulty with testing that involv…

> - Difficult transition to the cliques and more aggressive social dynamics of public school Am I naive in thinking that the aggressive social dynamics of public school adds no value whatsoever to a child's or teenager's development? Like, _why_ would anyone want to put their children through that? Is it _really_ integral to a person's social development to understand how to interact with bullies (worst case)? I admi…

I agree with your conclusion about aggressive social dynamics of public schools add nothing to child's development, and I base my opinion on my own experiences. I pretty much hated school - not for what I was meant to learn there but because of the aggression. That's main reason I put my kids through montessori, to spare them that experience I had to go through, and which contributed nothing to my development.
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