Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Genesis' Crypto-Lending Unit Is Suspending Withdrawals in Wake of FTX Collapse

coindesk.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 191 posts

Re: Genesis' Crypto-Lending Unit Is Suspending Withdrawals in Wake of FTX Collapse

#71

Post by datadata »

BoiledCabbage wrote: post #55
datadata wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An important reason that house prices went up in the years following 2008 is because the federal reserve printed over a trillion dollars to buy mortgage backed securities to add liquidity to the housing market [1]. Houses have a real value, yes, but that value was propped up well beyond the fundamentals (similar to crypto) and got a "bailout" (which crypto will hopefully not get). [1]: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/ser…

The Fed printed money to prop up the price of derivatives, not the price of house. Huge difference. Houses themselves fundamentally have intrinsic value as an asset. A currency has no intrinsic financial investment value. Especially not an arbitrarily created crypto currency. The only reason it's price would go up is people speculating that someone else will want to speculate on it in the future, and will pay a premi…

> The Fed printed money to prop up the price of derivatives, not the price of house.

I'm not sure your point here. Derivatives absolutely are a driver on the price of the underlying assets. Derivatives are what inflated the housing bubble prior to 2008.

I generally agree with you that homes have an intrinsic value, and that currencies do not necessarily have that. But that intrinsic value of homes was probably around the bottom of the 2008 housing market, not the top. On either side of that, home values exceeded the fundamental value due do manipulation or excessive leverage. In my mental model, fundamental value merely establishes a price "floor" of a market, but beyond this price floor every market is subject to mania and bubbles. For housing, the fundamental floor is non zero, for crypto, you could argue that it is zero.

> The only reason it's price would go up is people speculating that someone else will want to speculate on it in the future, and will pay a premium to do so.

This is true for housing also. Having a intrinsic value does not mean that housing prices should be expected to go up forever. As a clear counter example, deflationary goods like computers have a clear intrinsic value, but are not a good investment as they will almost certainly lose value.

Re: Genesis' Crypto-Lending Unit Is Suspending Withdrawals in Wake of FTX Collapse

#72

Post by [deleted] »

kmonsen wrote: post #65
shkkmo wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We haven't seen any indication that a wave of bank failures is coming. We haven't seen any failed banks in a couple of years. Now, that could change and we could see a recurrence of the wave of bank failures that started in 2008 and slowly tapered off, but your argument for that can't just be a hand wave at "trying times" and "fractional reserve" because the numbers currently show the opposite: https://www.fdic.gov/b…

Did any depositors loose money in 2008 from bank failures? If not when was the last time regular depositors lost money?

[deleted]

Re: Genesis' Crypto-Lending Unit Is Suspending Withdrawals in Wake of FTX Collapse

#73

Post by birracerveza »

awinder wrote: post #56
birracerveza wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone who still has any significant amount of money in any CEX, Coinbase included, is either not paying attention or irredeemably naive. It's especially tiresome the fact that people keep pointing at these disasters claiming "crypto has failed", when reality is the exact opposite: CEXs are the exact antithesis of the core crypto idea of decentralizing trust. "Not your keys, not your coins" keeps being proven right.

If it makes you feel any better, it’s extremely tiresome to a different cohort to see people make the claim that the future of finance is stuffing cash under the mattress and burying gold bars in their backyards

IMO it's the future of finance because you own your coins. Nothing else aside from crypto allows me to do so in digital form. You are free to disagree, even if you think it's digital beanie babies or whatever. Luckily in this case you can vote with your wallet, as I did.

Re: Genesis' Crypto-Lending Unit Is Suspending Withdrawals in Wake of FTX Collapse

#74

Post by humanistbot »

EMM_386 wrote: post #62
coffeebeqn wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t really get the point. My dollars are already digital. It’s not like my employer sends a stack of 100s to my banks vault every two weeks

But you won't have the option of cash, the Fed getting into digital currency implies an all-digital future. No cash, and everything is traced. Nobody gets to be "paid under the table", no exchanging cash with your dealer for drugs, no buying things you may be ashmed to buy with cash.

> But you won't have the option of cash, the Fed getting into digital currency implies an all-digital future.

That is quite a leap in logic, or "implies" is doing a lot of work in that sentence.

Re: Genesis' Crypto-Lending Unit Is Suspending Withdrawals in Wake of FTX Collapse

#75

Post by DebtDeflation »

throwup wrote: post #49
polygamous_bat wrote: post #36

To the crypto-inclined people commenting on every thread about how failing centralized exchanges don't effect you and are actually good for Bitcoin, how are you planning to convert your hard earned crypto into US dollars that you can spend at a grocery store? If your answer is "P2P exchanges," how do you plan to secure your cold wallet against the infamous rubber hose cryptanalysis?

1. Some exchanges are irresponsible and fail. Some exchanges are not irresponsible and do not fail. If you do a minimum of due diligence, it's not hard to tell the responsible from the irresponsible. Do they regularly publish independently-verifiable audits? Or are they spending boatloads money on stadium sponsorships? 2. If you're using an exchange for exchanging currencies (as opposed to speculation) you can send y…

>Do they regularly publish independently-verifiable audits?

Which exchange does this? I'm not talking about finding some mom and pop accounting shop to issue a 1 page report stating they checked on a certain date and the reserves were there, where the majority of the 1 page was a disclaimer stating that this wasn't technically an "audit" and should not be relied upon as such.

Re: Genesis' Crypto-Lending Unit Is Suspending Withdrawals in Wake of FTX Collapse

#76

Post by onlyrealcuzzo »

UltraViolence wrote: post #61
shkkmo wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't functional digital currencies simply remove any remaning non-speculative use for Bitcoin and further tank it? I fail to see how it provides any confidence that bitcoin will regain value.

Because there's no added value in having a digital dollar variant which is ultimately controlled by the government and Big Money. But its existence will give independent digital cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin more legitimacy, which translates into higher demand, which translates into a higher price. I foresee countries like Russia, China and other rogue nations betting big on digital cryptocurrencies to evade sanction…

> Because there's no added value in having a digital dollar variant which is ultimately controlled by the government and Big Money.

You mean beside paying taxes or going to jail, right?

Re: Genesis' Crypto-Lending Unit Is Suspending Withdrawals in Wake of FTX Collapse

#77

Post by asah »

ronsor wrote: post #67
shp0ngle wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t get what are these “digital dollars” supposed to do. There already is a digital dollar. It’s called “dollar”.

It's a scheme to give the government more control over your money than they already have.

...which IMHO isn't necessarily a bad thing. Here me out:

- you're already at the mercy of the "guys with guys" and the judges who direct them.

- central banks struggle to get timely complete information to make decisions. CBDCs offer a path to finally fixing this.

- central banks are very limited in what they can do today and in particular can't pop individual asset bubbles without cratering the economy. CBDCs offer a path to finally fixing this.

I know the crypto libertarians simply hate the govt, but frankly I love the (US) government:

- military that's reasonably competent (vs random warlords trashing everything)

- airports, roads, subways and infrastructure (vs every man for himself?!)

- air, water, food, etc that's reasonably clean (vs actually being poisoned or living in bubble?!)

The list goes on, but you get the idea.

Re: Genesis' Crypto-Lending Unit Is Suspending Withdrawals in Wake of FTX Collapse

#78

Post by monero-xmr »

polygamous_bat wrote: post #36

To the crypto-inclined people commenting on every thread about how failing centralized exchanges don't effect you and are actually good for Bitcoin, how are you planning to convert your hard earned crypto into US dollars that you can spend at a grocery store? If your answer is "P2P exchanges," how do you plan to secure your cold wallet against the infamous rubber hose cryptanalysis?

Not every exchange ran off with customer funds (i.e. Coinbase). And as others have commented, P2P is actually quite vibrant, it just doesn't get much attention. Check out:

Bisq https://bisq.network/

LocalMonero https://localmonero.co/?language=en

Re: Genesis' Crypto-Lending Unit Is Suspending Withdrawals in Wake of FTX Collapse

#79

Post by BLanen »

TSiege wrote: post #11

This also seems to be affecting Gemini Earn customers https://twitter.com/lawmaster/status/1592870524941922305

Gemini saying "yea uh you had to read the fine print and it's not actually us" is a hilarious copout and cryptobros repeating the line HAHA

Re: Genesis' Crypto-Lending Unit Is Suspending Withdrawals in Wake of FTX Collapse

#80

Post by CyberDildonics »

tartoran wrote: post #42
CyberDildonics wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone is talking about losing their balance and you are conflating it with price fluctuations.

Let’s not shy away, those balances are a speculation on the future price of crypto. If the prices don’t go up they’re affected, simple as that.

That's obviously not what was being talked about in this context. The discussion was about being affected by suspended withdrawals if exchanges never give people their deposits back.
Post reply on HN