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EVs are the least reliable vehicle type: Consumer Reports

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Re: EVs are the least reliable vehicle type: Consumer Reports

#151

Post by dsfyu404ed »

wlesieutre wrote: post #43
throwaway22032 wrote: post #17

Is it not just the case that there simply hasn't been enough time to work out the kinks? The Tesla Model S is only ten years old. So my 20 year old bulletproof Japanese petrol car is twice the age of the entire class of modern day EVs. My petrol car could probably have done the first ten years of its' life with oil changes and nothing else at all. I mean, it's done the last few years that way. But there's been a cent…

The EV drive trains are simpler, but they've come along with some silly bits like having to electronically open the glove box from the infotainment screen. Is that mechanism going to last 20 years? How about the pop-out door handles? I'm not optimistic. I'm sure the police are going to love that one. "License and registration?" "Sorry officer, they're in the glove compartment and when I tap the button it just makes a…

>I'm sure the police are going to love that one. "License and registration?" "Sorry officer, they're in the glove compartment and when I tap the button it just makes an angry grinding noise."

The only reason they ask for your papers is because it's an easy ticket to write or pretext for fishing if you don't have them. They look up your info based on the plate regardless.

Re: EVs are the least reliable vehicle type: Consumer Reports

#152

Post by baybal2 »

bitexploder wrote: post #47
Gravityloss wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen the argument that "traditional auto makers" don't "get" how many people think - they concentrate on panel gaps or wind noise or door closing bump noise. Tesla isn't great there, but the Tesla software is good, and what some people call "kids" treat the car more like a smart phone. They don't care if your panel gaps are great - if your infotainment software is very laggy or crashes, it's a low quality car.

Tesla software is not good overall. The engineering for the batteries is amazing. Drivetrain efficiency is good. The further the software gets from those two things the worse it gets. We ditched our model 3 for an e-tron and could not be happier. We gave up some range for an overall superior product. Our main complaint was the software, especially the shoddy constantly changing main UI. Tesla are good cars for what t…

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Re: EVs are the least reliable vehicle type: Consumer Reports

#153

Post by Tagbert »

quantumfissure wrote: post #141
photochemsyn wrote: post #98

Much better reporting here: https://www.cnbc.com/2022/11/15/consumer-reports-new-technol... > "Consumer Reports surveyed owners of more than 300,000 vehicles from model years 2000 to 2022 and used that data to make predictions about the reliability of 2023 model year vehicles." It'd be useful to see the spread over time, as EV's produced over a decade ago are probably not as reliable as EVs being produced today. As f…

I don't understand why automakers aren't taking traditional small ICE vehicles and throwing the electric components in it. Besides having to spread the weight of batteries out a bit, is it really much harder (I'm not an engineer by any means)? I'd love to see an EV version of the boring Corollas; Civics; Fits; Imprezas; or Yaris out there, instead of them doing... whatever it is they're doing (mostly redesigning ever…

An ICEV chassis does not make a very good EV. The ICEVs that have been converted to EV, like the Ford Focus EV, don’t have enough room for a larger battery and have usually only had a battery with around 70-100 mile range. The battery usually intrudes into the cargo area reducing the space for luggage and groceries.

Another problem is that the EV conversion adds a lot to the price. Then at the dealership, customers see an expensive Focus EV sitting next to a less expensive ICEV Focus and they tend to choose the less expensive option.

Re: EVs are the least reliable vehicle type: Consumer Reports

#154

Post by quantumfissure »

Tagbert wrote: post #153
quantumfissure wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why automakers aren't taking traditional small ICE vehicles and throwing the electric components in it. Besides having to spread the weight of batteries out a bit, is it really much harder (I'm not an engineer by any means)? I'd love to see an EV version of the boring Corollas; Civics; Fits; Imprezas; or Yaris out there, instead of them doing... whatever it is they're doing (mostly redesigning ever…

An ICEV chassis does not make a very good EV. The ICEVs that have been converted to EV, like the Ford Focus EV, don’t have enough room for a larger battery and have usually only had a battery with around 70-100 mile range. The battery usually intrudes into the cargo area reducing the space for luggage and groceries. Another problem is that the EV conversion adds a lot to the price. Then at the dealership, customers s…

Serious question, as I don't know much about vehicle physics: Why not just put a bunch in the (now empty) engine compartment and gas tank area to spread them out a bit? Do they weigh a lot more then a fully built ICE engine+transmission/clutch assembly+full gas tank?

Re: EVs are the least reliable vehicle type: Consumer Reports

#155

Post by photochemsyn »

quantumfissure wrote: post #141
photochemsyn wrote: post #98

Much better reporting here: https://www.cnbc.com/2022/11/15/consumer-reports-new-technol... > "Consumer Reports surveyed owners of more than 300,000 vehicles from model years 2000 to 2022 and used that data to make predictions about the reliability of 2023 model year vehicles." It'd be useful to see the spread over time, as EV's produced over a decade ago are probably not as reliable as EVs being produced today. As f…

I don't understand why automakers aren't taking traditional small ICE vehicles and throwing the electric components in it. Besides having to spread the weight of batteries out a bit, is it really much harder (I'm not an engineer by any means)? I'd love to see an EV version of the boring Corollas; Civics; Fits; Imprezas; or Yaris out there, instead of them doing... whatever it is they're doing (mostly redesigning ever…

Two other styles that would make for great conversions are the compact and highly reliable Toyota pickup trucks introduced in the 1980s, and the late 1980s rally-style cars, i.e. the BMW E30 M3 etc. A decent minivan would also be nice, although the new VW id Buzz looks interesting (older minivans had pretty bad crash outcomes I think).

Re: EVs are the least reliable vehicle type: Consumer Reports

#156

Post by rrwo »

tunap wrote: post #21
kube-system wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maintenance reliability Maintenance is planned. Reliability issues are unplanned failures. An EV may have brakes that last longer and no oil changes, but some EV manufacturers are adding gimmicky and buggy electronics, or poorly designed body hardware that fails.

My cousin recently had a flat tire in her EV. Roadside Assistance did not have a spare, required an expensive tow & her day was a total loss. Dragging a toddler along made a stressful experience worse, as well. I did not previously realize most(?) EVs have no spare tire included.

Most new non-EVs don't have spares anymore.

Re: EVs are the least reliable vehicle type: Consumer Reports

#157

Post by _8j50 »

KaiserPro wrote: post #13

In Which magazine, EVs were about as reliable as normal cars, however if you removed tesla from the ratings, then EV reliability jumped significantly to way above standard petrol/diesel. https://www.which.co.uk/ has the details, but you need to be a member to find out. Basically the fit, finish and reliability of the accessories were trash.

No way! I rented several non-tesla's I stopped after my second time getting stranded in the middle of nowhere because inaccurate battery meter. Even once a month waiting an hour+ to charge a car is intolerable. But oh no, swapping batteries like NIO is out of the question. Hybrids are cool but they say they are the worst to repair.

Re: EVs are the least reliable vehicle type: Consumer Reports

#158

Post by LinuxBender »

sk0g wrote: post #139
LinuxBender wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Salt is also pervasive on roads that get a lot of snow and ice. UPS is about to implement EV trucks here and I talk to the drivers all the time so I guess time will tell how that works out. AFAIK none of the locals own an EV but they do pass through here on their way to Yellowstone.

When I was in Oslo a few years ago, every third car was a Tesla for whatever reason. Considering I haven't heard of too many catching fire there, I'd wager it should be fine.

Entirely possible. There are plenty of Tesla fires in Norway per google images but from what I can tell it is mostly cases where the batteries were damaged from a collision. I can not find any public statistics on what percentage of those were damaged by salt.

Re: EVs are the least reliable vehicle type: Consumer Reports

#159

Post by doph »

jvanderbot wrote: post #109
Gravityloss wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen the argument that "traditional auto makers" don't "get" how many people think - they concentrate on panel gaps or wind noise or door closing bump noise. Tesla isn't great there, but the Tesla software is good, and what some people call "kids" treat the car more like a smart phone. They don't care if your panel gaps are great - if your infotainment software is very laggy or crashes, it's a low quality car.

We bought a model Y for two years of mortgage payments. It's a dream to drive! But the user experience is abysmal. Menus are deep, the entire dashboard is wasted, including the most valuable real estate in front of the driver, and everything is just too hard. E.g. Adjusting mirrors takes 3 menu clicks, don't even think of doing it while driving. Adjusting heating takes two clicks, and when you adjust temp, it clears…

Give the voice controls a try! It's the only way I adjust my mirrors.

I have come to appreciate my Model Y's interface for its uniformity. I do love a well designed physical interface, but what you get in most other cars is a total mishmash of control schemes and design languages that change make to make, model to model, and button to button.

Re: EVs are the least reliable vehicle type: Consumer Reports

#160

Post by Tagbert »

quantumfissure wrote: post #154
Tagbert wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An ICEV chassis does not make a very good EV. The ICEVs that have been converted to EV, like the Ford Focus EV, don’t have enough room for a larger battery and have usually only had a battery with around 70-100 mile range. The battery usually intrudes into the cargo area reducing the space for luggage and groceries. Another problem is that the EV conversion adds a lot to the price. Then at the dealership, customers s…

Serious question, as I don't know much about vehicle physics: Why not just put a bunch in the (now empty) engine compartment and gas tank area to spread them out a bit? Do they weigh a lot more then a fully built ICE engine+transmission/clutch assembly+full gas tank?

The Nissan Leaf is about a close as you can get on a chassis built for ICEVs. It uses a platform shared with the Versa and several other Nissans. The electric motor and related electronics and service components (like air conditioner) are where the ICE engine would be and the area under the back seat and luggage area are filled with batteries. I believe it can get up to 150 mile range.
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