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Ask HN: Would You Work for Elon?

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Re: Ask HN: Would You Work for Elon?

#181

Post by AndrewKemendo »

Dracophoenix wrote: post #170
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #81

Not only should we not work for these people, we should actively take their power from them by organizing and supporting each other as much as possible. It's crazy to me that our profession fights unionization despite repeated, predictable and consistent anti-worker, antisocial, narcissistic, ego driven companies that grind us up and spit us out Giving someone unvested RSUs with no voting rights, in third class stock…

> It's crazy to me that our profession fights unionization despite repeated, predictable and consistent anti-worker, antisocial, narcissistic, ego driven companies that grind us up and spit us out Unionization is no different from giving someone else control over your paycheck. Just as there are narcissistic bosses there are mafia-like unions and, in both cases, you're not going to know until it's too late. The benef…

This is precisely the attitude that keeps us here. Crabs in a bucket.

>Vested RSUs turn people into millionaires overnight.

So do lottery tickets - your odds are about the same too

>The benefit of the tech industry is that there's always a market for it and there are low barriers to entry. Programmers can vote with their feet. This isn't the 1950s. There are millions of choices for tech workers today that aren't street-sweeping or working for Big Blue.

"I have enough options so I do not feel any sense of responsibility to support my coworkers against a structurally imbalanced system"

Not to put too fine of a point on it, but your response is almost precisely the point people make with the misquoted phrase:

"Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires"

More nuance to that quote here: https://hellyesjohnsteinbeck.tumblr.com/post/23486952183/com...

Re: Ask HN: Would You Work for Elon?

#182

Post by dd82 »

jerf wrote: post #140
mcphage wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Elon puts a lot of focus on ability and skill over formalities and organizations I'm curious what this means to you, because when I see people from inside Twitter correct him on Twitter, with specific technical statements describing what's going on—and then he fires them—that seems like formalities way outranking ability and skill.

"I'm curious what this means to you, because when I see people from inside Twitter correct him on Twitter, with specific technical statements describing what's going on—and then he fires them—that seems like formalities way outranking ability and skill." I'm curious... do you not understand why this person was fired? If I publicly corrected my CEO, I would expect to be fired. I do not work for Elon, and I make this s…

>There are perfectly sensible business reasons why it is an unacceptable risk to have someone running around publicly "correcting" the CEO while having a position within the organization

especially when the CEO is spouting a ton of bullshit and doesn't want his aura of perfection impigned in any way.

Re: Ask HN: Would You Work for Elon?

#183

Post by kamaal »

Dracophoenix wrote: post #170
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #81

Not only should we not work for these people, we should actively take their power from them by organizing and supporting each other as much as possible. It's crazy to me that our profession fights unionization despite repeated, predictable and consistent anti-worker, antisocial, narcissistic, ego driven companies that grind us up and spit us out Giving someone unvested RSUs with no voting rights, in third class stock…

> It's crazy to me that our profession fights unionization despite repeated, predictable and consistent anti-worker, antisocial, narcissistic, ego driven companies that grind us up and spit us out Unionization is no different from giving someone else control over your paycheck. Just as there are narcissistic bosses there are mafia-like unions and, in both cases, you're not going to know until it's too late. The benef…

>>Unionization is no different from giving someone else control over your paycheck.

Most people would do anything to have the privilege to work at a company like Twitter. Even with insane productivity standards that Musk demands. People grind their bodies for way less and non-meaningful labor work. Here you get an opportunity to gain skills and competence which you can immediately use as your career progresses.

There is a reason why unionising hasn't caught up in Tech. Firstly most employees don't stay long enough for any meaningful thing to happen. But beyond that, unions just transfer your responsibility to career managers, who have no stake in seeing you do good in real way. Sure they might negotiate a little better pay and benefits. But they have 0 interest in making you truly better, like better skilled, educated and trained on the longer run. Which has more potential to unlock better opportunities.

In fact competent employees run contrary to the goals of a union. This is for several reasons. They threaten the existing leadership structure of the union, and if that isn't the case, they are likely to move jobs and that means one less paying employee for the union structure.

Re: Ask HN: Would You Work for Elon?

#184

Post by dd82 »

bheadmaster wrote: post #167
jakelazaroff wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Frankly, if I were evaluating a job candidate and I saw that they joined Twitter after Elon, I’d see it as huge red flag.

Frankly, if someone judges people for working somewhere, regardless of the circumstances, I would see that as a huge red flag.

working somewhere, briefly. not too much of a red flag

working somewhere a while and thriving in that environment? But I get it, ethics can easily fly out the window when you choose, especially when there's alot of money in play to bribe your feelings.

Re: Ask HN: Would You Work for Elon?

#185

Post by guardiangod »

jerf wrote: post #140
mcphage wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Elon puts a lot of focus on ability and skill over formalities and organizations I'm curious what this means to you, because when I see people from inside Twitter correct him on Twitter, with specific technical statements describing what's going on—and then he fires them—that seems like formalities way outranking ability and skill.

"I'm curious what this means to you, because when I see people from inside Twitter correct him on Twitter, with specific technical statements describing what's going on—and then he fires them—that seems like formalities way outranking ability and skill." I'm curious... do you not understand why this person was fired? If I publicly corrected my CEO, I would expect to be fired. I do not work for Elon, and I make this s…

Exactly. I've publicly face-to-face buttheaded with the CEO of a very large tech company (that you have 100% heard of) at a very large townhall meeting. I did it because it's an internal event so my chance of getting fired is significantly lower (but still not zero!)

But doing it in public, sharing internal data, and with the tone the guy used on a brand new owner? I don't know what he expected. Getting fired is the expected outcome.

Re: Ask HN: Would You Work for Elon?

#187

Post by dhfbshfbu4u3 »

vincnetas wrote: post #84

Dang, why is this not a poll? Here's a identical Poll : https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33623212 For ethers: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21231804

I thought about it, but I felt actual responses would be better than a thumbs up/down thing.

Re: Ask HN: Would You Work for Elon?

#188

Post by Bubble_Pop_22 »

inawarminister wrote: post #169
drcongo wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm really not sure we can class anyone who thinks Musk is a genius as being "smart dudes".

Geohot innovated removing iPhone sim lock (remember AT&T exclusivity>) at age 17, jailbroken PS3, and built an Autopilot-quality hardware by himself. He's now livecoding a ML library on Twitch. Lex Friedman is Lex Friedman. So no, those guys are smart dudes.

> So no, those guys are smart dudes.

Von Braun was a very smart dude but he was making the Nazi salute and fawning over Hitler all the times.

When he moved to the US he was fawning over Eisenhower all the times.

Similarly this Friedman guy has 4 years worth of videos in which he fawns over Putin.

Technical abilities and critical thinking in the social realm are 2 very different sets of competences. It's very rare to find somebody who is extremely technically gifted and is also able to realize that the leader of a big organization is not a god but a regular guy like anybody else who happened to be positioned in the right spot to ride the wave of social consensus.

Re: Ask HN: Would You Work for Elon?

#189

Post by nashashmi »

bheadmaster wrote: post #166
nashashmi wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When the guy says stupid stuff, it would be "RUDE" to not correct him. But in his opinion, he thinks it is "rude" to correct him. He is on a power trip. I second everything you said about fostering a competitive no bs environment. Reminds me of Jeff Bezos. But Musk's behavior is toxic. Treating people outside the firm (like customers getting into accidents with self drive and losing their life, or journalists critiqu…

I'm talking specifically about publicly tweeting a passive-aggressive rebuttal whose only purpose is to imply "this guy has no idea what he's talking about", not about correcting people in general. Try doing that when your boss says something "stupid" and see how that goes for you.

I have enough leverage in any conversation, that bosses don't have much choice other than to entertain the idea. I use this "leverage" to build further reputation as the person who only talks in the benefit of others.

But Elon has this "my way or highway" blinded racehorse mentality. He overruns people if he doesn't get his way.

Re: Ask HN: Would You Work for Elon?

#190

Post by Retric »

FredPret wrote: post #168
Retric wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EV transition is all about improvements in battery technology which Tesla had nothing to do with. A big chunk of Tesla’s early revenue was selling drivetrains to over EV companies. The transition was real and Tesla successfully road the wave, props to a successfully executed business strategy but technology wise it really didn’t change much. People talk about the EV1, but the Toyota RAV4 EV was produced from 1997…

Technology is one aspect of progress. Deploying it, convincing people to adopt it, making it a viable business are all just as important, if not more. Just as an aside, it's not possible to make more than zero cars without developing a hell of a lot of technology; especially if you mass produce them. Even if every aspect of the car is completely old hat, which Teslas aren't.

I have no problem acknowledging that fewer EV’s would be on the road without Tesla the company. I simply disagree that Musk actually moved the needle significantly long term.

The initial Roadster was the first production EV to have a range of 200 miles which then sold 2,450 cars. That’s a milestone, but Musk wasn’t even the CEO when it was released. I give him credit for being part of the funding round A though not a seed investor, an actual founder, or really all that critical to the process while acknowledging he very much was part of the process.

He had a larger role when it comes to the Model S, but by that point they had all the elements of a car and it really came down to execution. He helped turn a 100 million dollar company into a 100 billion dollar company, that is impressive. You don’t need to try and exaggerate his importance.

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