EVs are the least reliable vehicle type: Consumer Reports • Hacker News Board

Re: EVs are the least reliable vehicle type: Consumer Reports

#141

Post by quantumfissure » Wed, Nov 16, 2022, 3:32 PM UTC

photochemsyn wrote: post #98

Much better reporting here: https://www.cnbc.com/2022/11/15/consumer-reports-new-technol... > "Consumer Reports surveyed owners of more than 300,000 vehicles from model years 2000 to 2022 and used that data to make predictions about the reliability of 2023 model year vehicles." It'd be useful to see the spread over time, as EV's produced over a decade ago are probably not as reliable as EVs being produced today. As f…

I don't understand why automakers aren't taking traditional small ICE vehicles and throwing the electric components in it. Besides having to spread the weight of batteries out a bit, is it really much harder (I'm not an engineer by any means)?

I'd love to see an EV version of the boring Corollas; Civics; Fits; Imprezas; or Yaris out there, instead of them doing... whatever it is they're doing (mostly redesigning everything bigger and, in my opinion, uglier). I think to me, and to a lot of people, a car is just a car to get them from A to B, and don't want it to set them back $30-$40k.

Except for a few Chevy Bolts and Nissan Leafs out there, the vehicles on the road seem to be Teslas and larger, fancier makes from traditional ICE manufacturers.

Re: EVs are the least reliable vehicle type: Consumer Reports

#142

Post by mynameisvlad » Wed, Nov 16, 2022, 3:33 PM UTC

vladvasiliu wrote: post #114

mynameisvlad wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“The industry” also had decades of time to perfect their process, and afaik there isn’t some giant knowledge-sharing system in place for new manufacturers to get all the insights of “the industry”. A new car manufacturer is going to have issues in fit and finish for the first few years regardless as they figure out their tooling process. I’m sure quality was sacrificed to some extent, everyone does it whenever they c…

But aren't most components actually sourced from third-parties? In which case, their experience with the traditional manufacturers could be reused. The French manufacturers, for example, don't produce their own seats. I don't expect the auxiliary (as in not engine / drivetrain related) components to be radically different just because they're attached to an EV-powered car. Or does Tesla actually manufacture everythin…

Body panel fit is a pretty common complaint with Teslas (and is definitely an issue, my own has gaps in some areas but none that I deemed extreme, I’ve seen some bad ones out there though). That would be an example of something that, IMO, can only be perfected with time. The body panels might be similar to other cars, but it’s something that each manufacturer is going to have different issues with because of the variability.

I don’t think I’ve really seen many criticisms of commonly available parts used in Tesla cars. The one big one that comes to mind would be the eMMC recall which, similar to what I said above, Tesla figured out after years of heavy writes to the component. It’s something that could have been avoided had there been some centralized group to give best practices for automotive or industrial development but that just doesn’t really exist.

Re: EVs are the least reliable vehicle type: Consumer Reports

#143

Post by leetcrew » Wed, Nov 16, 2022, 3:34 PM UTC

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #134

krzyk wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Teslas the majority? I always assume Tesla was a more luxury brand of EVs. Is there any ranking of amount of EVs by brand sold to date? AFAIR Nissan Leaf was selling quite well some time in Europe. And in 2022 I see BYD sold more vehicles than Tesla, but I can't find data for all the EVs sold in the past.

> I always assume Tesla was a more luxury brand of EVs. Aren't EVs in generally really still luxury (or at least high middle tier) brands? Are there EV equivalents of a Civic?

a Chevy bolt is competitive on price with tax incentives factored in. it's actually not bad, but imo the civic is a much better value unless you really want an EV.

Re: EVs are the least reliable vehicle type: Consumer Reports

#144

Post by CorrectHorseBat » Wed, Nov 16, 2022, 3:35 PM UTC

bathtub365 wrote: post #130

mikeyouse wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few reasons why I much prefer the Audi Q4 E-tron to a Model Y; * It has wireless Carplay - so I don't need to rely on Audi (or Tesla) engineers to provide Spotify or podcast integrations * It has a physical lever to control the windshield wipers like every other car made in the past 50 years. You don't need to dig through menus to use a critical safety feature. * It has physical buttons for the HVAC controls - so a…

Do you really have to go into a menu to turn on the wipers in Tesla cars?

You can make them swipe once by pressing a button and then there's a little pop up on which you can turn them on. Not great, but you don't have to go into a menu.

For the fog lights you have to go into a menu or flash your high beams to get the lights pop up, which really sucks.

Re: EVs are the least reliable vehicle type: Consumer Reports

#145

Post by mynameisvlad » Wed, Nov 16, 2022, 3:36 PM UTC

ilyt wrote: post #117

mynameisvlad wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The last FAQ entry mentions a software update so I wouldn’t be surprised if it did. Or at least made it so the writes are spread out over the 64GB replacement resulting in 8x longevity.

Quoted post unavailable.

Is the hostility really necessary?

Tesla doesn’t release detailed changelogs outside of their FSD betas, so guesses are the best thing you’re going to get short of an insider telling you.

The fact that a software update is specifically highlighted in the FAQ of this recall does indeed suggest that said update would improve on or fix the issue. Otherwise why would it have been called out at all?

Whether you choose to believe it does is up to you, but I don’t really see what else you’d expect someone without inside knowledge to be able to provide here.

Explicitly, the first guideline for HN is:

> Be kind. Don't be snarky. Have curious conversation; don't cross-examine. Please don't fulminate. Please don't sneer, including at the rest of the community. Edit out swipes.

Re: EVs are the least reliable vehicle type: Consumer Reports

#146

Post by bigbillheck » Wed, Nov 16, 2022, 3:36 PM UTC

njovin wrote: post #11

> And they found that for Tesla in particular, issues with body hardware, steering suspension, paint and trim, and climate systems on the models were of most concern. Rick and I tested the Model 3 a few years back and we found a lot of issues with fit and finish and parts on the inside of the car I wish they'd separate cosmetic issues from functional ones. IMO it's pointless to lump "paint is uneven" in with "steerin…

If they can't get the paint right, why should I expect they got something more critical right?

Re: EVs are the least reliable vehicle type: Consumer Reports

#147

Post by duncans » Wed, Nov 16, 2022, 3:37 PM UTC

bathtub365 wrote: post #130

mikeyouse wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few reasons why I much prefer the Audi Q4 E-tron to a Model Y; * It has wireless Carplay - so I don't need to rely on Audi (or Tesla) engineers to provide Spotify or podcast integrations * It has a physical lever to control the windshield wipers like every other car made in the past 50 years. You don't need to dig through menus to use a critical safety feature. * It has physical buttons for the HVAC controls - so a…

Do you really have to go into a menu to turn on the wipers in Tesla cars?

No, you tap the button on the end if the indicator stalk. This gives you a wipe, and a wiper speed menu will appear on the screen if you want to override the auto wiper speed.

Saying that, the auto wipers can be dreadful. They mostly work OK, but occasionally will randomly turn on when it's dry, or not come on when it's pissing down. It's down to the fact that rather than use a simple infra-red based rain sensor (that the rest of the industry has used for decades) Tesla think they can do just as good a job using the front-facing AutoPilot camera and save a dollar or two on a dedicated sensor.

Re: EVs are the least reliable vehicle type: Consumer Reports

#148

Post by doph » Wed, Nov 16, 2022, 3:41 PM UTC

bathtub365 wrote: post #130

mikeyouse wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few reasons why I much prefer the Audi Q4 E-tron to a Model Y; * It has wireless Carplay - so I don't need to rely on Audi (or Tesla) engineers to provide Spotify or podcast integrations * It has a physical lever to control the windshield wipers like every other car made in the past 50 years. You don't need to dig through menus to use a critical safety feature. * It has physical buttons for the HVAC controls - so a…

Do you really have to go into a menu to turn on the wipers in Tesla cars?

No, at least on my '22 MY, you can use one of the stalks to turn on wipers or spray washer fluid. There's also an auto mode that turns them on when rain is detected that works about 80% of the time for me. You can also use voice controls.

Re: EVs are the least reliable vehicle type: Consumer Reports

#149

Post by duncans » Wed, Nov 16, 2022, 3:42 PM UTC

wlesieutre wrote: post #43

throwaway22032 wrote: post #17

Is it not just the case that there simply hasn't been enough time to work out the kinks? The Tesla Model S is only ten years old. So my 20 year old bulletproof Japanese petrol car is twice the age of the entire class of modern day EVs. My petrol car could probably have done the first ten years of its' life with oil changes and nothing else at all. I mean, it's done the last few years that way. But there's been a cent…

The EV drive trains are simpler, but they've come along with some silly bits like having to electronically open the glove box from the infotainment screen. Is that mechanism going to last 20 years? How about the pop-out door handles? I'm not optimistic. I'm sure the police are going to love that one. "License and registration?" "Sorry officer, they're in the glove compartment and when I tap the button it just makes a…

Regarding the pop-out door handles - this is a fascinating video on how the Tesla Model S door handles design has been refined and made more reliable by someone who used to work at Tesla (SuperfastMatt) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bea4FS-zDzc

Re: EVs are the least reliable vehicle type: Consumer Reports

#150

Post by laputan_machine » Wed, Nov 16, 2022, 3:42 PM UTC

LudwigNagasena wrote: post #135

laputan_machine wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, the ol' "move the goalposts" technique! A classic for sure.

Well, of course "actually, it costs $2 per month in fuel" may be technically correct, but I am sure most people would find such concerns quite petty and beside the point.

> Panel gaps don’t even matter from a pragmatic standpoint.

This is your statement.

They "don't even matter". It's not pragmatic to care about panel gaps. It doesn't matter.

That is what you are stating, that isn't me misquoting or being malicious, they're your words!

If you meant to instead say "There are diminishing returns to reduce panel gap size, and Tesla have got it right!", then I agree with the first statement, disagree with the second, but best of all it clarifies your point. Cheers!