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EVs are the least reliable vehicle type: Consumer Reports

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Re: EVs are the least reliable vehicle type: Consumer Reports

#51

Post by _ea1k »

kube-system wrote: post #15
njovin wrote: post #11

> And they found that for Tesla in particular, issues with body hardware, steering suspension, paint and trim, and climate systems on the models were of most concern. Rick and I tested the Model 3 a few years back and we found a lot of issues with fit and finish and parts on the inside of the car I wish they'd separate cosmetic issues from functional ones. IMO it's pointless to lump "paint is uneven" in with "steerin…

Paint is not a cosmetic issue, failing paint can cause mechanical failure due to corrosion. Improvements in automotive coatings is the number one reason that cars aren’t “worn out” at 5 years and 50,000 miles like they did in the 70s.

That's true, but a lot of paint issues are not so severe. Many are things like the white bumper not matching the rest of the car. That one is common across brands. Tesla's get a lot of scrutiny for dust nibs and uneven application.

I'd bet its the minority that would have a functional impact.

Re: EVs are the least reliable vehicle type: Consumer Reports

#52

Post by mynameisvlad »

akino_germany wrote: post #45
schipplock wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.tesla.com/support/8gb-emmc-recall-frequently-ask...

So you get a new eMMC which dies in a few years again? Or did they fix the software as well?

The last FAQ entry mentions a software update so I wouldn’t be surprised if it did.

Or at least made it so the writes are spread out over the 64GB replacement resulting in 8x longevity.

Re: EVs are the least reliable vehicle type: Consumer Reports

#53

Post by robin_reala »

wlesieutre wrote: post #43
throwaway22032 wrote: post #17

Is it not just the case that there simply hasn't been enough time to work out the kinks? The Tesla Model S is only ten years old. So my 20 year old bulletproof Japanese petrol car is twice the age of the entire class of modern day EVs. My petrol car could probably have done the first ten years of its' life with oil changes and nothing else at all. I mean, it's done the last few years that way. But there's been a cent…

The EV drive trains are simpler, but they've come along with some silly bits like having to electronically open the glove box from the infotainment screen. Is that mechanism going to last 20 years? How about the pop-out door handles? I'm not optimistic. I'm sure the police are going to love that one. "License and registration?" "Sorry officer, they're in the glove compartment and when I tap the button it just makes a…

These are Tesla things though. My VW EV has normal door handles, glove box handle, air vent positioning, manual seats, etc etc.

Re: EVs are the least reliable vehicle type: Consumer Reports

#54

Post by delta_p_delta_x »

kube-system wrote: post #8
rrwo wrote: post #5

Interesting, since EVs supposedly have lower maintenance costs overall https://afdc.energy.gov/vehicles/electric_maintenance.html > All-electric vehicles typically require less maintenance than conventional vehicles because: > The battery, motor, and associated electronics require little to no regular maintenance > - There are fewer fluids, such as engine oil, that require regular maintenance > - Brake wear is signif…

Maintenance reliability Maintenance is planned. Reliability issues are unplanned failures. An EV may have brakes that last longer and no oil changes, but some EV manufacturers are adding gimmicky and buggy electronics, or poorly designed body hardware that fails.

Here's your not-equal-to symbol:

  ≠

Re: EVs are the least reliable vehicle type: Consumer Reports

#55

Post by kube-system »

bravetraveler wrote: post #49
_ea1k wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The lack of spare tires is correlated with the increase in tire size, IMO. My first car was a 1987 Mazda with 14" tires. It was a two seat sports car, with a tiny spare mounted vertically. They could do that since it was 14". Modern sports cars are 18-20" and the spare tire is a big cargo compromise.

Makes me mad that my mustang has a spot for a spare... But no actual spare They give you a fix it kit and some good wishes edit: I suspect it's something to do with tire size as you say, but also brakes . Can't fit a donut with what's on the hub For > $40k I would've liked they throw in a real spare wheel/tire lol

That’s actually a good thing, because you have a place to put one if you want to buy one.

Re: EVs are the least reliable vehicle type: Consumer Reports

#56

Post by audunw »

krzyk wrote: post #41
mgadams3 wrote: post #16

I've owned 3 EVs and Tesla is the lowest quality car I've ever owned. Teslas weigh down the average b/c they're the majority of EVs on the road.

Teslas the majority? I always assume Tesla was a more luxury brand of EVs. Is there any ranking of amount of EVs by brand sold to date? AFAIR Nissan Leaf was selling quite well some time in Europe. And in 2022 I see BYD sold more vehicles than Tesla, but I can't find data for all the EVs sold in the past.

> I always assume Tesla was a more luxury brand of EVs.

Eh, Model S was high-end but wouldn't call it luxury. Lots of regular people with a decent income bought it. Interior wasn't up to "luxury" standards.

My kindergarten teacher has a Model 3, so that's not really luxury at all.

Re: EVs are the least reliable vehicle type: Consumer Reports

#57

Post by ghaff »

wlesieutre wrote: post #43
throwaway22032 wrote: post #17

Is it not just the case that there simply hasn't been enough time to work out the kinks? The Tesla Model S is only ten years old. So my 20 year old bulletproof Japanese petrol car is twice the age of the entire class of modern day EVs. My petrol car could probably have done the first ten years of its' life with oil changes and nothing else at all. I mean, it's done the last few years that way. But there's been a cent…

The EV drive trains are simpler, but they've come along with some silly bits like having to electronically open the glove box from the infotainment screen. Is that mechanism going to last 20 years? How about the pop-out door handles? I'm not optimistic. I'm sure the police are going to love that one. "License and registration?" "Sorry officer, they're in the glove compartment and when I tap the button it just makes a…

To be fair, even many of the latest ICE vehicles have a lot of electronic/motor-driven frippery. I bought a new vehicle over the summer and, in spite of having a fairly generous collection of pushbutton controls, still has a ton of automatic controls--e.g. shifting the drivers side rearview mirror to reverse--that aren't really necessarily and are presumably expensive to fix when they break.

Re: EVs are the least reliable vehicle type: Consumer Reports

#58

Post by vardump »

krzyk wrote: post #41
mgadams3 wrote: post #16

I've owned 3 EVs and Tesla is the lowest quality car I've ever owned. Teslas weigh down the average b/c they're the majority of EVs on the road.

Teslas the majority? I always assume Tesla was a more luxury brand of EVs. Is there any ranking of amount of EVs by brand sold to date? AFAIR Nissan Leaf was selling quite well some time in Europe. And in 2022 I see BYD sold more vehicles than Tesla, but I can't find data for all the EVs sold in the past.

BYD sold more vehicles, but less BEVs than Tesla. BYD makes also plugin hybrids.

Re: EVs are the least reliable vehicle type: Consumer Reports

#59

Post by zhdc1 »

Gravityloss wrote: post #28
KaiserPro wrote: post #13

In Which magazine, EVs were about as reliable as normal cars, however if you removed tesla from the ratings, then EV reliability jumped significantly to way above standard petrol/diesel. https://www.which.co.uk/ has the details, but you need to be a member to find out. Basically the fit, finish and reliability of the accessories were trash.

I've seen the argument that "traditional auto makers" don't "get" how many people think - they concentrate on panel gaps or wind noise or door closing bump noise. Tesla isn't great there, but the Tesla software is good, and what some people call "kids" treat the car more like a smart phone. They don't care if your panel gaps are great - if your infotainment software is very laggy or crashes, it's a low quality car.

Expectations are simply different once you step into the luxury segment.

Tesla, pre Model 3, had real issues that went beyond panel gaps. Modern Tesla is doing much better, but they're competing against established players who differentiate through great interiors and "the little details".

Large portions of this customer segment are willing to trade long term reliability for perceived build quality and overall luxury. Tesla's value proposition, which is great performance and long term reliability at the expense of panel gap size and cheap leather, simply doesn't fit their expectations.

Re: EVs are the least reliable vehicle type: Consumer Reports

#60

Post by ehnto »

_ea1k wrote: post #44
tunap wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My cousin recently had a flat tire in her EV. Roadside Assistance did not have a spare, required an expensive tow & her day was a total loss. Dragging a toddler along made a stressful experience worse, as well. I did not previously realize most(?) EVs have no spare tire included.

The lack of spare tires is correlated with the increase in tire size, IMO. My first car was a 1987 Mazda with 14" tires. It was a two seat sports car, with a tiny spare mounted vertically. They could do that since it was 14". Modern sports cars are 18-20" and the spare tire is a big cargo compromise.

I wonder if another constraint is AWD and modern stability control systems not being able to handle a difference in circumference at one corner, so space saver tires are not an option.
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