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The good delusion: has effective altruism broken bad?

economist.com

11–20 of 619 posts

Re: The good delusion: has effective altruism broken bad?

#11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How did it fall short?

It justifies doing bad things for "the greater good".

Maximizing earnings by any means is verifiably not effectively altruistic, because if everyone did this... no one would ever engage in true charitable causes. Young people would compete simply to rip off the gullibility of older people looking to scratch the charitable itch.

Re: The good delusion: has effective altruism broken bad?

#12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How did it fall short?

It is purely people justifying doing the evil things they personally desire by claiming some unverifiable benefit that accrues to hypothetical future people who may never even exist.

Aaaand this is why time discounts exist and are steep. Not because we are incapable of or unwilling to comprehend future rewards, but because we don't know if they'll come to pass. It's a dampening parameter - if you don't do it, you fall prey to Basilisks.

Re: The good delusion: has effective altruism broken bad?

#13
post #5

The title is unfairly conflating the idea with one organization. Plenty of people quietly donate some fraction of income to effective charities (effective altruism), without engaging with the Effective Altruism institution. Though, yeah wow, I didn't realize how cliquey Effective Altruism had become.

Yeah it’s basically “give me your money and I promise I’ll do really cool things with it”.

No thanks.

Re: The good delusion: has effective altruism broken bad?

#14
post #5

The title is unfairly conflating the idea with one organization. Plenty of people quietly donate some fraction of income to effective charities (effective altruism), without engaging with the Effective Altruism institution. Though, yeah wow, I didn't realize how cliquey Effective Altruism had become.

It is sad! Distributing mosquito nets in malaria-afflicted areas saves lives on the cheap and is universally acclaimed. How better to describe this than "effective altruism"?

Why do perfectly nice general descriptive terms so often become tightly bound with one small group and their whole very particular worldview?

Re: The good delusion: has effective altruism broken bad?

#15
Maybe this is superficial, but I was put off by the name "effective altruism". By naming it such, it felt like an implicit dig that most altruism is not effective. Like oh your altruism is not that productive, but my altruism, well it's effective altruism. Especially when that notion is pushed by people who overlap with the rationalist subculture, another arrogantly named group.

In general I find it concerning when technical people encroach upon non-technical areas without giving a sufficient amount of respect to the people who were in the field already. Those people, the experts, do know a lot and to have this kind of nerd savior branding of effective altruism, as if you are bringing the enlightenment that allows these poor altruists to finally be effective, well that just seems a little presumptuous.

Re: The good delusion: has effective altruism broken bad?

#16

"effective altruism" was never either effective nor altruistic. If people are finally working that out, good for them.

How did it fall short?

idk if it's all bad, I remember reading about it maybe a decade ago when rationalists talked about it. Like one good idea is donating to charities that are more efficient. But it seems like mostly BS wrapped up in mathematics to make it seem more rational. Some assumptions are not necessarily true but if you disagreed then you were immoral and irrational. It also comes with a form of very elitist virtue signalling like forming clubs where people bloviate about this.

Also a problem with charity, especially in the US, is as the IRS defines it, it's not necessarily charitable. So it's easy to confuse altruism with plain old politics, vanity, and for-profit business disguised as a tax-exempt and then argue that anyone that disagree is not rational.

Re: The good delusion: has effective altruism broken bad?

#17
Just the other day I was listening to this Dave Troy podcast "against long termism"[0] and it's the first time I ever heard the term "effective altruism", however within the last few days of having listened to EA has come up multiple times. I also remembered when listening to it that the title screen of the Baba Is You videogame on the nintendo switch promotes the "Giving what we can" charity. Very interesting stuff, I highly recommend checking out not only that podcast but the rest of the Oil, Gold, Crypto and Fascism series from Dave Troy.

[0] https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/against-longtermism-wi...

Re: The good delusion: has effective altruism broken bad?

#18

Like most things: EA as a concept is fine. Finding the "maximal" way to improve the lives of others is great, and finding better ways to contribute than charity and volunteering is honorable. The issue is when people take it to the extreme (like someone who literally argued that a person doing mere charity or volunteer work is bad , because they are wasting time and effort that they could've spent making money and re…

Effective altruism (EA) is a philosophical and social movement that advocates "using evidence and reason to figure out how to benefit others as much as possible, and taking action on that basis". [1]

Seems like a good idea, if only just to have some sort of open-system for rating charities. I suspect the issue is everything that comes around the idea, specially... people. The problem is always people :-). Perhaps a "Michelin Guide to Charities" would be easier to market and explain? :-p

My favorite explanation of how "effective altruism" works is this SMBC comic [2]. :-)

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1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effective_altruism

2: https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/2011-07-13

Re: The good delusion: has effective altruism broken bad?

#19
Effective altruists would risk the 10% chance of making thousands of clients lose all their money if it gives them a 50% chance of donating more to charity later. Since it makes sense according to their utility function. That’s what we learned from the FTX debacle. Sort of reminds me of the paper clip manufacturer A.I. who ends up killing all humans due to a broken utility function.

Re: The good delusion: has effective altruism broken bad?

#20
post #5

The title is unfairly conflating the idea with one organization. Plenty of people quietly donate some fraction of income to effective charities (effective altruism), without engaging with the Effective Altruism institution. Though, yeah wow, I didn't realize how cliquey Effective Altruism had become.

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