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Ask HN: Hourly billers, do you bill for only focused work?

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31–40 of 146 posts

Re: Ask HN: Hourly billers, do you bill for only focused work?

#31
Hourly billing burnt me out. I started on Upwork with the spying software installed. I was desperate for money at that time. But my own methodology when working is to think about the problem, only typing code when I have a good hint about a solution. So for a day of work, I may spend one hour typing code, three hours reading code and the rest of the time thinking hard. But the activity monitor inside the software only picked up the time when you're actively using the computer so, I was always distracted in my thinking with the reminder that I have to use the mouse for the timer to resume.

Now I'm paid a fixed price each month (fairly high for where I'm living). So, wages are not something I think about. But when I try to negotiate other project, I either go fixed, or billed by the day at the smallest. My usual hours for work range from 10am to 5pm, so I bill this amount if the client really wants hourly invoicing.

Re: Ask HN: Hourly billers, do you bill for only focused work?

#32
A lawyer died and arrived at the pearly gates. To his dismay, there were thousands of people ahead of him in line to see St. Peter. To his surprise, St. Peter left his desk at the gate and came down the long line to where the laywer was, and greeted him warmly. Then St. Peter and one of his assistants took the lawyer by the hands and guided him up to the front of the line, and into a comfortable chair by his desk. The lawyer said, “I don’t mind all this attention, but what makes me so special?”

St. Peter replied, “Well, I’ve added up all the hours for which you billed your clients, and by my calculation you must be about 193 years old!

Re: Ask HN: Hourly billers, do you bill for only focused work?

#33
post #4

I've been in the same boat. My resentment just built up over years, and for what? It just made me seem like an uptight arsehole. And I probably was too. Looking like I'm working used to be a (minor) concern of mine, but I'm more focused if it doesn't enter my mind. Charge for your time. Don't stop the clock for meetings, short breaks, toilet etc. Lunch is debatable. If you go for a short lunch, with your work colleag…

> Looking like I'm working used to be a (minor) concern of mine, but I'm more focused if it doesn't enter my mind.

You can stop an intrusive thought from entering your mind just by realizing that it would harm your focus? Is it possible to learn this power?

Re: Ask HN: Hourly billers, do you bill for only focused work?

#34
post #10

Do yourself a favour, and bill by the day, rather than by the hour. Engineering is creative work, and you're paid to think - code is just the end product. Thinking happens consciously and unconsciously, at all times of the day. Billing by the day will allow you to focus on the work rather than the administrivia. Whatever you do, do not drop your rate: you'll just be undervalued by your clients.

Yap, this is the correct way of doing it

That and Value based pricing

https://youtu.be/ivKnj9ffcmE

Re: Ask HN: Hourly billers, do you bill for only focused work?

#35
Honestly it depends on the type of work.

If you are essentially freelancing full time, consider changing your billing to daily or weekly rates anyway.

If you are doing highly specialized work that relies on experience & knowledge, do hourly, only for focused work, and bill high enough that your "slack" hours are covered anyway (e.g. target approx 1000hr/yr actual billed will cover your salary needs).

The "real" answer if you want the best return for your time is move to project level billing, not time, if you can with your clients.

Sometimes your clients will drive how you can bill anyway, of course.

Re: Ask HN: Hourly billers, do you bill for only focused work?

#37
post #4

I've been in the same boat. My resentment just built up over years, and for what? It just made me seem like an uptight arsehole. And I probably was too. Looking like I'm working used to be a (minor) concern of mine, but I'm more focused if it doesn't enter my mind. Charge for your time. Don't stop the clock for meetings, short breaks, toilet etc. Lunch is debatable. If you go for a short lunch, with your work colleag…

> Looking like I'm working used to be a (minor) concern of mine, but I'm more focused if it doesn't enter my mind. You can stop an intrusive thought from entering your mind just by realizing that it would harm your focus? Is it possible to learn this power?

With time and effort, Yes you can. ¡Si se puede!

Re: Ask HN: Hourly billers, do you bill for only focused work?

#38
post #12

I bill by the hour, not the minute. If I work 10 mins on something and do nothing for the other 50, you are billed an hour. Frankly, this is how most clients have actually wanted it. They think in hours (or days) not some subdivision of them. And yes, thinking about work is the same as doing the work. It's all billable time. As far as your rate, I always bill as high as I can without pushback. Where is that level? Yo…

> In the end it's just business. You either make a client happy or you don't.

Spot on.

1) Do good work. Be patient and kind to clients. Remember when someone asks you to do something for the 8th time, "Hey, it's their money."

2) Make sure you write your contracts in a way that lets you raise rates every January. Aim for a 10% increase every calendar year.

3) Give clients a discount if they sign retainers, or longer contracts. This ultimately means less sales cycle, and more profit for you.

4) Raise rates on clients based on how much you like the work. If you really don't enjoy working with one client, raise their rates until you can stomach the work. If you like a client... yeah cut them some slack.

5) Always know who your stakeholders are at a company, and make sure you send some nice thank you gifts this time of year. Even if it's just a card saying why you appreciate certain people on their team... letting those people know, and letting their bosses know... that buys you a lot of goodwill. 'Tis the season. (=

Re: Ask HN: Hourly billers, do you bill for only focused work?

#40
post #10

Do yourself a favour, and bill by the day, rather than by the hour. Engineering is creative work, and you're paid to think - code is just the end product. Thinking happens consciously and unconsciously, at all times of the day. Billing by the day will allow you to focus on the work rather than the administrivia. Whatever you do, do not drop your rate: you'll just be undervalued by your clients.

Indeed.

Many of my best ideas have come to me in the shower, on a walk and even in the middle of the night.

It's ridiculous to say you should have a stopwatch with you at all times, so daily billing it is.

If they don't want to that, just assign 8 hours as a full day and stop worrying of you reach them or not.

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