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Emergency SOS via satellite

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Re: Emergency SOS via satellite

#151

Post by portyllo »

brookst wrote: post #131
photochemsyn wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This article from LeMonde seems to imply that they're using Globalstar: > "To offer this new feature, Apple had to integrate a miniature antenna in its smartphone. It captures part of the signal of satellite constellations without relying on a satellite dish or a specific telephone handset. The iPhone manufacturer signed an agreement with Globalstar, one of the operators of low-altitude constellations, sets of satell…

The "85% of their bandwidth" part is super interesting. It implies usage for much more than occasional emergencies. Globalstar has ~12Mhz of global S-Band spectrum[0], which they describe as "3.7 Billion MHz-POP", a unit I'm not grokking. But I am pretty sure that is a LOT more bandwidth than what will be used for highly compressed text messages in emergencies. [0] https://www.globalstar.com/Globalstar/media/Globalst…

A MHz-POP is just bandwidth times population covered by the Geographic Service Area (i.e., where the company is licensed to operate). For example, in the US, they would have 11.5 MHz x 330 M = 3.79 Billion MHz-POP.

Re: Emergency SOS via satellite

#152

Post by x13 »

tony_cannistra wrote: post #7

I'm glad to see that they at least talked to some IRL dispatchers for this press release, which hopefully suggests that they've been doing it all along. But really, I desperately hope that we can find a way to educate folks on the proper usage of technology like this (which, if you count things like the Garmin inReach and the Spot devices, has been available for a decade). They're undoubtedly life saving, but they al…

good points. a few things jumped out at me from https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2022/11/emergency-sos-via-sat...

"A $450 million investment from Apple’s Advanced Manufacturing Fund provides the critical infrastructure that supports Emergency SOS via satellite for iPhone 14 models."

"Once received by a ground station, the message is routed to emergency services that can dispatch help, or a relay center with Apple-trained emergency specialists if local emergency services cannot receive text messages."

"In 2021, Apple announced an acceleration in its US investments, with plans to make new contributions of more than $430 billion over a five-year period."

Apple has probably given this some thought.

Re: Emergency SOS via satellite

#153

Post by stagger87 »

user3939382 wrote: post #143

Wait, what? iPhones are sat phones?? It has the antenna for that?? Since when? The GPS is a passive receive. I skimmed the article and didn't see, how on Earth (lol) does this work? Sat antennas are huge. Maybe these search and rescue SOS beacons have their own signal?

You have to point the phone at the sky for long periods of time AND track the sat position in the sky while you do it. It's probably some long spread spectrum approach (lots of processing gain), as well as I'm sure a bunch of other cool tricks/techniques.

Re: Emergency SOS via satellite

#154

Post by Buttons840 »

COGlory wrote: post #123

I was just on the ground coordinating with 4 friends that got buried in 5+ foot of unexpected snow in the mountains (forecast said 1"-2" when they went up) for the rifle opener in Montana. I wound up getting sick so I stayed home (hilariously I was the only one who got an elk) but I sent them up with my InReach. All I can say is THANK GOD that I did, because it turned into over a week long effort to get them out. Two…

Does InReach require a monthly cost?

Alternatively, you can spend about $200 one time on a personal locator beacon that requires no ongoing costs. It can't do two-way communication but activating it sends out a specific frequency picked up by satellites and is the equivalent of calling 911. Rescuers will come to help you.

All serious hikers and outdoor adventurers should carry a personal locator beacon.

Re: Emergency SOS via satellite

#155

Post by JadeNB »

amscanne wrote: post #140
JadeNB wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For Emergency services there is no “activate and pay later” because you don’t need to activate, and you don’t need to pay. If you have an iPhone 14 it’s supposed to just work if you’re calling 911. This is nothing special about the iPhone or the version; every cell phone is supposed to put through calls to 911: > All wireless phones, even those that are not subscribed to or supported by a specific carrier, can call…

The parent comment is referring to the iPhone 14's ability to reach emergency services via a satellite network; this is indeed something special.

I was confused, because the parent comment says:

> For Emergency services there is no “activate and pay later” because you don’t need to activate, and you don’t need to pay. If you have an iPhone 14 it’s supposed to just work if you’re calling 911.

The Emergency SOS seems explicitly to require activation, and to have a cost (eventually):

> The service will be included for free for two years starting at the time of activation of a new iPhone 14, iPhone 14 Plus, iPhone 14 Pro, and iPhone 14 Pro Max.4

So I assumed that the parent was referring to just calling 911 using the normal cell network, which can indeed be done, on any mobile phone (that is able to dial, of course), without activation or payment.

Re: Emergency SOS via satellite

#156

Post by manacit »

jmbwell wrote: post #120

Set backcountry search and rescue aside for a second. Seems to me this is for ordinary people doing ordinary things outside cell range, and finding they need help. A family member has a heart attack. A collision with a moose. Who knows what. Less “should’ve brought water and a jacket” and more “we’ve been on route 9 for two hours, a moment ago everything was fine, now he’s not breathing, we have no bars, and we have…

This is definitely not an extremely serious backcountry device, but for someone (like me) that is a casual hiker and skier, it was the primary reason I bought an iPhone 14 Pro.

It's very easy in the US West to get out of cell service very quickly - at that point, even just throwing an ankle or tripping can put you at the mercy of your hiking companion or random strangers on the trail. If you're going somewhere less traveled, this is just a nice thing to have in your pocket.

This feature isn't going to save you after you've been buried in an avalanche, but it's going to get search and rescue to carry you out when you're 10 miles from the parking lot. Worth the cost.

Re: Emergency SOS via satellite

#157

Post by user3939382 »

stagger87 wrote: post #153
user3939382 wrote: post #143

Wait, what? iPhones are sat phones?? It has the antenna for that?? Since when? The GPS is a passive receive. I skimmed the article and didn't see, how on Earth (lol) does this work? Sat antennas are huge. Maybe these search and rescue SOS beacons have their own signal?

You have to point the phone at the sky for long periods of time AND track the sat position in the sky while you do it. It's probably some long spread spectrum approach (lots of processing gain), as well as I'm sure a bunch of other cool tricks/techniques.

There are obviously people out there that are deep experts on radio, signals, propagation, antennas, etc. That's not me, but I know enough about it to appreciate that this is completely amazing.

Re: Emergency SOS via satellite

#159

Post by mikestew »

petre wrote: post #134
Alex3917 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bigger threat to Garmin is probably just the new GPS. There are probably a lot of folks who will now put off buying their first bike computer for a couple years now that an iPhone with Strava is going to be almost as accurate as an Edge 530 or whatever. Having a real bike computer is still going to be better, but by significantly less than it was a year ago.

One doesn't need to buy an expensive Garmin model. I've got an Edge 130 and an older Edge 25 that I've bought second hand. The 130 came as an upgrade to the older device and is perfect for my use. Both devices connect with my Forerunner 245 watch for the HR. Whenever I don't want to use them (commute or sub 20 km workout), I just use the watch. Dual frequency GPS is probably going to make its way into cheaper Garmin…

I've set up my Garmin devices to ignore phone calls and texts from the phone during workouts.

As an FYI, if you have an iPhone, you can set a "Fitness" focus mode that turns on automatically when a workout is started. From there, you can specify which contacts can pop a notification during workouts (or none at all). I let my wife and my parents get through.

But, like you, not that I'd use a phone as a bike computer to begin with.

Re: Emergency SOS via satellite

#160

Post by ausudhz »

DrBenCarson wrote: post #144
nickcw wrote: post #100

From the small print > The service will be included for free for two years starting at the time of activation of a new iPhone 14, iPhone 14 Plus, iPhone 14 Pro, and iPhone 14 Pro Max. Which kind of implies it will be a pay for service after two years.

My guess is they're going to keep it free as long as you get a new phone every 2 years or add some more features and charge for those. Don't think they want to look like they're charging people to keep their lives.

Well, the alternative is that other phones don't have it.

So I think this is an advantage. If, lets say, it costs 4.99 a year, I think a good percentage of people would do that (me included, even though I'm not an iPhone user).

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