In Memoriam: Christopher Hitchens, 1949–2011 • Hacker News Board

Re: In Memoriam: Christopher Hitchens, 1949–2011

#141

Post by lutorm » Fri, Dec 16, 2011, 2:57 PM UTC

jonnathanson wrote: post #134

paganel wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Noam Chomsky quite well articulates what so greatly annoys me in the use of term "marxist". http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4Tq4VE8eHQ > It has hardly any relation to the original context or meaning of the writings of one Karl Marx. Truth be told, Marx himself would probably not be seen as a "marxist". And as a guy who swears by his Hayek and Lord Acton, I wonder how come when someone in the former Western block co…

"...when someone in the former Western block countries calls you a "marxist" or as a follower of Marx supposedly it is something bad, very bad?" Our Western popular[1] perception of Marx is heavily colored by the usurpation of his name, and bastardization of his philosophy, by Lenin, Stalin, et al. These days, most people simply conflate Stalin and Marx, and they're unable to separate the two. (I bet many people prob…

Our Western popular[1] perception of Marx is heavily colored by the usurpation of his name, and bastardization of his philosophy

Not to mention the view of many Americans of "Socialism" as both the politics of the Soviet Union and those of present-day western Europe. Given that, fat chance people would know the distinction between Marx and Stalin.

Re: In Memoriam: Christopher Hitchens, 1949–2011

#142

Post by euroclydon » Fri, Dec 16, 2011, 2:59 PM UTC

olavk wrote: post #107

SamReidHughes wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it's not. Why wouldn't an atheist want an afterlife?

The christian concept of heaven is not very attractive if you are not a christian. While there are different interpretations, the common is that heaven is an eternal non-physical state of being together with God (the god of the Bible), perhaps even "absorbed" by this god. The god of the Bible is racist, jaloux, blood-thirsty and opposed to critical thinking, and among other things calls for human sacrifice, genocide…

Has it occurred to you that if God created everything, than the standard by which you're judging heaven might be short sighted?

I like to think there might be little racism and infanticide and much discourse on creating universes.

Re: In Memoriam: Christopher Hitchens, 1949–2011

#143

Post by serverdude » Fri, Dec 16, 2011, 3:04 PM UTC

One of the foremost intellectuals - I disagreed with him on Iraq but scoured youtube to watch his debates - mostly against religious rabbis. There really was no one like him.

"“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence." - Christopher Hitchens

Re: In Memoriam: Christopher Hitchens, 1949–2011

#144

Post by brudgers » Fri, Dec 16, 2011, 3:15 PM UTC

bostonpete wrote: post #139

brudgers wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since it is a joke, Vonnegut used it on more than one occasion. There is a version in Timequake as well. That was where I originally read it [see: http://books.google.com/books?id=ggiR05avpw4C&pg=PT73&#3... ]

Wow -- I've read most of his books and never realized he "plagiarized" himself like this. Thanks!

So it goes.

Re: In Memoriam: Christopher Hitchens, 1949–2011

#145

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Dec 16, 2011, 3:24 PM UTC

super_mario wrote: post #119

TomOfTTB wrote: post #16

Hitchens was essentially a Marxist (by his own admission) who was also in favor of the U.S. invasion of Iraq and the foreign policy it represented. So there was very little I agreed with him on. But I'm terribly upset about this and I'll tell you why. Because of his willingness to debate. I'd literally scan right wing talk radio schedules for his name because you just knew it would be a great show. In a world where s…

Anyone who knew Hitchens knows that "heaven" as depicted by cristianity is a "celestial North Korea, where the sole purpose is to praise the dear leader incessantly, compelled to love someone you fear (essence of sadomasochism). You'd think the Lord himself would get bored of this after a couple of billion years"... So, wishing him in heaven from another atheist as you say you are is really saying you don't know much…

[deleted]

Re: In Memoriam: Christopher Hitchens, 1949–2011

#146

Post by bravura » Fri, Dec 16, 2011, 3:34 PM UTC

gbog wrote: post #128

bravura wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not splitting hairs about my main point, which is that Leys doesn't actually respond to Hitchens's main criticism. But let me respond about "obscenity": You call Mother Theresa "respectiable". Hitchens's whole book advances the argument that she is nothing but, and is in fact contemptible. His argument is not germane to your point, so I won't delve into it. Hitchens, in a video (you can find it on youtube, can't…

I don't mind expressing disrespect for religions, I am an agnostic myself, I even think this title was a good catch. But you don't seem to address my point, which is that Hitchens denies the implications and sexual connotation of calling his book "The Missionary Position", which is bad faith. He could have skip the point, or just said he was sorry Simon Leys didn't like it, but saying it is nowhere obscene is plain i…

Let's go to the text:

"Finally, I note that he describes the title of my book as “obscene,” and complains that it attacks someone who is “elderly.” Would he care to say where the obscenity lies?"

Hitchens doesn't deny that there is a sexual connotation. Regardless, sexual connotation is not synonymous with obscenity. The point is that he invites Leys to discuss whether the title is obscene or not. (He doesn't explicitly deny the claim of obscenity, you'll note.) This discussion would further Hitchens's goal of discussing religious wfigures with less reverence.

p.s. I'm not the one downvoting you, if it matters.

Re: In Memoriam: Christopher Hitchens, 1949–2011

#147

Post by davej » Fri, Dec 16, 2011, 3:36 PM UTC

wyclif wrote: post #47

TomOfTTB wrote: post #16

Hitchens was essentially a Marxist (by his own admission) who was also in favor of the U.S. invasion of Iraq and the foreign policy it represented. So there was very little I agreed with him on. But I'm terribly upset about this and I'll tell you why. Because of his willingness to debate. I'd literally scan right wing talk radio schedules for his name because you just knew it would be a great show. In a world where s…

A choice Hitch refusal to be cowed by the moronic and frivolous: http://youtu.be/HECI4QK_mXA

I love that clip. Not because I agree with him about Bush (I don't), but because he doesn't give a fuck that everybody in the room disagrees with him; in fact, I'd say he revels in it. A true badass contrarian.

Re: In Memoriam: Christopher Hitchens, 1949–2011

#148

Post by bravura » Fri, Dec 16, 2011, 3:37 PM UTC

Craiggybear wrote: post #121

TomOfTTB wrote: post #16

Hitchens was essentially a Marxist (by his own admission) who was also in favor of the U.S. invasion of Iraq and the foreign policy it represented. So there was very little I agreed with him on. But I'm terribly upset about this and I'll tell you why. Because of his willingness to debate. I'd literally scan right wing talk radio schedules for his name because you just knew it would be a great show. In a world where s…

Knew it was coming. Still gutted. Totally agree, there was much I objected to ... but this was someone who enjoyed conversation and debate and always had something thought-provoking to say. Farewell, Chris.

Don't call him Chris.

'He did not, in fact, like being called "Chris" – his mother would not, he explained, wish her firstborn to be addressed "as if he were a taxi-driver or pothole-filler" – and found "Hitch", which most friends used, more acceptable.'

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2011/dec/16/christopher-hitc...

That obit is a good read, btw.

Re: In Memoriam: Christopher Hitchens, 1949–2011

#149

Post by bravura » Fri, Dec 16, 2011, 3:43 PM UTC

obtu wrote: post #105

mattyohe wrote: post #35

#GodIsNotGreat is trending worldwide. It's quite entertaining to see the live timeline of people freaking out: http://twitter.com/#!/search/realtime/%23GodIsNotGreat

Seems like Twitter censored it from the trending spot; a pity.

@johnwilander: #GodIsNotGreat pulled from trends because christians protest. But #ReasonsToBeatYourGirlfriend allowed. Stay classy @Twitter

Re: In Memoriam: Christopher Hitchens, 1949–2011

#150

Post by Nelson69 » Fri, Dec 16, 2011, 3:50 PM UTC

I saw him on Morning Joe about 18 months ago. I like the idea of what they are trying to do with that show, I like that they have both sides on it, but it has more than enough grab ass (it's 2 hours too long every day..) Anyhow, they were getting ready to engage him in a serious conversation but it was a grab-ass session between segments, I can't remember the subject but they were goading folks to make some statement on something really absurd (it was sexist or Jersey Shore or something, I wish I could remember it) but Mika (the news reader lady) tried to get him to voice an opinion and he very eloquently said "pass" it was a bit flowery though and had just a hint of an insult back for even being asked to talk about it.

I don't know if anyone had ever done that before, they clearly weren't prepared for it. He was there for something serious and he kept to it, regardless of views, much respect to the guy. In a pop-media bubble gum bullshit news and entertainment world he had a mission and kept to it. A tragic loss we need more of him and more like him.