81–90 of 170 posts
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This a trick question because 10 line programs are trivial. Please show me a high performance hardware-accelerated 3D game engine written in lisp. Or a web browser.
How about IDE with base codebase of 1.5M loc and tons of 3rd part packages? (emacs)? Most modern programming is not about performance, it is about managing complexity.
I've been hearing claims my entire programming career about how Lisp is supposedly "superior" to mainstream programming languages, but I've never seen a concise code example that actually demonstrates this. For instance, it's easy to demonstrate how Rust is superior to C: Just show a short piece of code where an array is returned from a function. In C, this will involve raw pointers and manual memory management with…
Also Lisp makes it easier to not repeat yourself. It's shorter to create functions, even macros, leading to the ominous "DSL" rabbit hole.
Another superpower is that it has no predefined keywords or operators. So you can redefine everything to whatever unicode you want. Including other languages and writing systems. It's a lot harder to write a programming language/compiler that uses another natural language idiomatically using something more similar to C or Python.
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Considering Lisp was here first, shouldn't the real question be "why use Rust/C++/Python when there's Lisp?" You can't even create a real closure in Rust. I'd love to see 10 lines of Rust that showed me something that: 1. I can't easily do in Lisp. 2. Actually matters in practice.
This a trick question because 10 line programs are trivial. Please show me a high performance hardware-accelerated 3D game engine written in lisp. Or a web browser.
1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_Oriented_Assembly_Lisp
2. https://elliottslaughter.com/2011/06/blackthorn-3d
- Last updated in 2020 https://bitbucket.org/elliottslaughter/blackthorn-engine-3d/src/master/
4. https://github.com/BradWBeer/clinch
5. https://github.com/Shirakumo/trial
- This has games released on Steam built in it
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People use Python in production, why not Hy?
There are plenty of reasons not to add a transpilation step to production code: * Looking at stack traces is suddenly so much harder and involves reverse-engineering the transpiler unless your transpiler is sophisticated enough that it can de-transpile the stack traces back to the source language. * You're adding a step to your build pipeline. * You're taking on the risk of bugs or security issues that may exist or b…
Multiple languages are less of an issue when you have a small team or a team of one.
I'd be willing to use Hylang in production. I wouldn't go all-in, but rather pick something that looks like it needs a DSL. You can still interface with Python code interchangeably whenever you want, so there really is not much pain to abandon the attempt completely.
I've been hearing claims my entire programming career about how Lisp is supposedly "superior" to mainstream programming languages, but I've never seen a concise code example that actually demonstrates this. For instance, it's easy to demonstrate how Rust is superior to C: Just show a short piece of code where an array is returned from a function. In C, this will involve raw pointers and manual memory management with…
Just in case people don't know about C. This is a short piece of code where an array is returned from a function. typedef struct {int v[4];} Vec; Vec get_vec(void){return Vec {3,2,1,0};} Edit: alas, I've been writing too much C++. The following is correct C. typedef struct {int v[4];} Vec; Vec get_vec(void){Vec v={{3,2,1,0}}; return v;}
C is a much simpler language than many people assume -- of course, it can get really hairy and complicated especially when you need to do dynamic memory management, but that's not what the GP was asking for in this case.
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I mean the famous example is of course, (define (eval exp env) (cond ((number? exp) exp) ((string? exp) exp) ((symbol? exp) (lookup exp env) ((eq? (car exp) 'quote) (cadr exp)) ((eq? (car exp) 'lambda) (list 'closure (cdr exp) env)) ((eq? (car exp) 'cond) (eval-cond (cdr exp)) (else (apply (eval (car exp) env) (eval-list (cdr exp) env))))) which uses a Lisp to define itself. This means roughly that if you understand…
> This means roughly that if you understand enough Lisp to understand this program Any recommendations on good resources for learning Lisp to a degree that this program is understandable?
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Doesn’t VS do that too though? Also if you’re talking about performance or memory profiling, why are you using a Lisp in the first place?
I haven't used VS in a decade, but you needed to restart your program after changing the code. Also, C++ linkage, while far faster than rust isn't the fastest thing, and compilation can be slow too (particularly with the popularity of header-only libraries).
Wow. No. This is a really basic debugging feature that's been around for over a decade. You can also drag-and-drop the instruction pointer to another line, watch and change variables in real time, etc. I swear, every LISP-related thread has someone touting ancient features as if they are somehow new or unique.
I've been hearing claims my entire programming career about how Lisp is supposedly "superior" to mainstream programming languages, but I've never seen a concise code example that actually demonstrates this. For instance, it's easy to demonstrate how Rust is superior to C: Just show a short piece of code where an array is returned from a function. In C, this will involve raw pointers and manual memory management with…
How do you fix a waterlogged smartphone? Put out a bowl of rice, which attracts an Asian guy who will repair it for you.
Languages have pedigrees. If you pretend like your company is enamored with javascript you'll get people who love fedoras and call themselves Ninjas. Big teams, single function libraries, lots of code shipped - move fast and break things. Cats pawing at Macbook keyboards. Mumble rap.
If you pretend you love Haskell you'll attract mathematicians in elbow patches. Great stable code will sporadically appear once every couple of years seemingly at random. Genius solutions to neat problems that have nothing to do with what the company is actually trying to accomplish. Ents. Classical music.
If you pretend to love lisp you'll attract people who read PG essays and will quit to start their own companies. Maybe they'll help you close out some tickets in Jira before they bounce if they can get your Rube Goldberg monstrosity working on their laptop. Honey badgers and hamsters. U2.
If you pretend to love latin you might get elected PM.
If you actually learn a few orthogonal languages to cover the very finite amount of paradigms you'll eventually come to realize they are all crap.
If you want to code, code. Don't talk.
{ ⊃ 1 ω ∨ . ∧ 3 4 = +/ +⌿ 1 0 ‾1 ∘.θ 1 - ‾1 Φ″ ⊂ ω }
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I haven't used VS in a decade, but you needed to restart your program after changing the code. Also, C++ linkage, while far faster than rust isn't the fastest thing, and compilation can be slow too (particularly with the popularity of header-only libraries).
> you needed to restart your program after changing the code Wow. No. This is a really basic debugging feature that's been around for over a decade. You can also drag-and-drop the instruction pointer to another line, watch and change variables in real time, etc. I swear, every LISP-related thread has someone touting ancient features as if they are somehow new or unique.
I've been hearing claims my entire programming career about how Lisp is supposedly "superior" to mainstream programming languages, but I've never seen a concise code example that actually demonstrates this. For instance, it's easy to demonstrate how Rust is superior to C: Just show a short piece of code where an array is returned from a function. In C, this will involve raw pointers and manual memory management with…
Lisp is absolutely superior and you should absolutely learn it but you'll never get concise examples as to why. Only jokes and anecdotes. How do you fix a waterlogged smartphone? Put out a bowl of rice, which attracts an Asian guy who will repair it for you. Languages have pedigrees. If you pretend like your company is enamored with javascript you'll get people who love fedoras and call themselves Ninjas. Big teams,…