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Tell HN: Employers are not desperate to hire developers

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Re: Tell HN: Employers are not desperate to hire developers

#321

Post by chrisseaton »

anon50118810 wrote: post #310
chrisseaton wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a FAANG-level developer would probably email a team they’re interested in working with.

Is that how it works? Imagine your typical 51-200 person company with your, I don't know, mobile, backend, product teams, whatever you call them. Is there some unspoken rule you pick up at FAANG or the Ivy League that the front door is for the unwashed and people in the know use back channels to get an invitation? If someone reached out to me and I redirected them to the careers page, would I be committing some kind…

> Is there some unspoken rule you pick up at FAANG or the Ivy League that the front door is for the unwashed and people in the know use back channels to get an invitation?

Err yeah kind of. I always recommend people find someone in the team they want to join and reach out to them personally or via a mutual.

If you fill in the form without someone on the other end waiting to pick your application out of the firehouse it can get lost in the HR mystery machine.

I think that’s a pretty common opinion? I’ve never gotten a job with a blind application. I’ve gotten every job I applied to when I did it by reaching out.

Re: Tell HN: Employers are not desperate to hire developers

#322

Post by throwaway675309 »

bdw5204 wrote: post #51
1letterunixname wrote: post #7

The macro economic conditions are such that only senior technical people and similar high-value employees are getting jobs.

The problem right now is that the FAANG companies and the tier below that have suddenly laid off an absolute ton of people (and not hired a ton of people that they'd normally have hired) so you're competing with those people for the pool of open jobs. If you're the kind of developer who would usually end up at the second tier companies, those companies are going to be hiring the people Facebook and Twitter just laid…

They have announced massive layoffs but I sincerely doubt that a majority of them represent mid/senior level software engineers. There's lots of fields in the tech sector: tech-support, documentation, quality assurance, software testing, etc.

Nothing this last year has led me to believe you'll have any trouble getting a engineering job provided you're not looking for an entry-level position.

Re: Tell HN: Employers are not desperate to hire developers

#323

Post by throwaway675309 »

digitalsushi wrote: post #135
dariusj18 wrote: post #28

My experience is it's impossible to find people who's experience actually matches their resume.

We try to hire seasoned linux admins for our ops team. This has become difficult. I start with this technical interview question so I can calibrate quickly: "If I run the following two commands: mkdir a b c;mv * What happens?" One person so far has asked if globbing was active. Like half of people get the answer right if they assume it is. This question is deemed as "not fair", though, because it assumes a linux admi…

Yeesh this feels more like a trivia question and less like a real problem.

You should be focusing on a desired objective in the linux environment and then allow them to outline the steps to get to that objective.

Re: Tell HN: Employers are not desperate to hire developers

#324

Post by antisthenes »

i_am_toaster wrote: post #100
ian_dot_so wrote: post #46

I think this is over-generalizing I've been both on the hiring side and candidate side this year and demand is still very strong (granted moreso for more senior applicants than junior). Couple of tips that have worked for me: * Make sure your Linkedin is up-to-date, you have "open to work" turned on and that your experience is filled with direct results and accomplishments. Example of a bad bullet point (Used javascr…

I don’t agree on a few of these. I wouldn’t personalize your resume for any company, nor do I recommend writing a personalized cover letter for any of them — you have no idea the skill set that will be valued by the person reading the resume, as they are an unknown random variable. I feel it’s just a time waste and there is no proof that this sort of thing is fruitful. Also fuck leetcode. I’ve refused to do the leetc…

I don't customize my resume, but if a recruiter asks me to highlight a particular technology, I will temporarily add it to my resume if they legitimately think it will help.

For shotgunning applications, I don't customize. Way too much effort.

Re: Tell HN: Employers are not desperate to hire developers

#325

Post by throwaway675309 »

smt88 wrote: post #2

I wonder if this is related to the transition to remote work. A lot of companies are passing on comparatively expensive US developers and getting the same level of experience for 1/2 or 1/3 the cost in other countries.

This is contrary to the evidence that I've seen. Outsourcing to countries with a cheaper cost of living seems like an advantage to a US-based company but it comes with tremendous disadvantages including: time zone difference for standup, cultural differences, communication barriers, complex tax situations, etc. All of this over time just leads to incredible technical debt that builds up.

Re: Tell HN: Employers are not desperate to hire developers

#326

Post by antisthenes »

John23832 wrote: post #92
fdschoeneman wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not? Do you seriously believe racism is never a thing that happens in hiring? Because it is, just as it is in academia. At least some of the time. Instead of shaming people for pointing out the real possibility that racism may be at play, consider acknowledging that it may be at play but that there's nothing the op can do about it and he or she should just keep plugging away. It's a numbers game, with or without…

Because you have no proof for any “end of year” DEI target rate limiting. It is entirely what you labeled it as, speculation. I said nothing about racism in hiring practices. I was addressing the statement that was made.

When hiring, people discriminate on all kinds of factors, and there are labor economics papers out there that prove it definitively.

Age-ism, ethnic sounding names, etc. What makes you think companies engage in all kinds of biased hiring EXCEPT diversity quotas?

If anything, the burden of proof is on you that they don't.

Re: Tell HN: Employers are not desperate to hire developers

#327

Post by smt88 »

more_corn wrote: post #70
smt88 wrote: post #2

I wonder if this is related to the transition to remote work. A lot of companies are passing on comparatively expensive US developers and getting the same level of experience for 1/2 or 1/3 the cost in other countries.

My company does contract development work. We’ve gotten quite a bit of work cleaning up half-assed projects that have been bungled by offshore shops. If your company is doing that, be sure to keep me in mind for when this blows up in a quarter or two!

My company is not doing that. We don't use contractors at all.

Re: Tell HN: Employers are not desperate to hire developers

#328

Post by ghaff »

anon50118810 wrote: post #310
chrisseaton wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a FAANG-level developer would probably email a team they’re interested in working with.

Is that how it works? Imagine your typical 51-200 person company with your, I don't know, mobile, backend, product teams, whatever you call them. Is there some unspoken rule you pick up at FAANG or the Ivy League that the front door is for the unwashed and people in the know use back channels to get an invitation? If someone reached out to me and I redirected them to the careers page, would I be committing some kind…

I'm certainly more likely to know people at a random large company, but I know a lot of people in the industry to various degrees from we've met at a conference to I've worked with them. If I were thinking of applying somewhere, one of my first steps would be figuring out who I knew there. I won't automatically refer someone if I don't think they'd be a good fit but if I know them well enough to have a positive opinion about them, I'll let them know what I know or can find out and put in a referral.

Re: Tell HN: Employers are not desperate to hire developers

#329

Post by ghaff »

anon50118810 wrote: post #310
chrisseaton wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a FAANG-level developer would probably email a team they’re interested in working with.

Is that how it works? Imagine your typical 51-200 person company with your, I don't know, mobile, backend, product teams, whatever you call them. Is there some unspoken rule you pick up at FAANG or the Ivy League that the front door is for the unwashed and people in the know use back channels to get an invitation? If someone reached out to me and I redirected them to the careers page, would I be committing some kind…

BTW, this isn't a FAANG/Ivy League thing. In fact, I expect that it's even more common in a lot of other areas. Friend of a friend jobs are incredibly common. If you're just trying to navigate the system from the complete outside by handing your resume around, you're at an incredible disadvantage.

Re: Tell HN: Employers are not desperate to hire developers

#330

Post by type-r »

ryandrake wrote: post #39

Honestly, this doesn't sound much different than a year ago, five years ago, or ten years ago. Companies never seem to be serious about hiring: they go fishing but never reel anyone in, they ghost you after a few communications, they reject your application with automation, and even if you have an internal referral, the referrer is usually only able to do "Go apply through the normal funnel and if you get through the…

I don't mean this to come off as insensitive but having a pipeline conversion of 10% on both steps of the process feels quite low to me. Both numbers are very different from my own experience: with a 'true FAANG' name on resume, the application to interview rate should be more around 50-90%. For interview->offer, if you grind out system design and LeetCode, you can get to 40-75%. These numbers are quite attainable for junior/mid-level/senior roles, though there is more variability / poorer predictability for staff-level roles.

Speaking from experience as well as the experience of former colleagues. Of course, you may find that you don't want to grind out prep to increase the latter conversion, which is also fine. Just wanted to provide another data point.

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