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Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

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Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#421

Post by esperent »

specto wrote: post #412

This is anecdotal, and I still plan to get the latest booster soon, but I have had pain in my left chest since the first covid vaccine. I went to a doctor who ran an EKG but they said everything was functioning correctly. Maybe someone knows if I should get a second opinion? I can no longer sleep on my left side since then as it causes the pain to increase, so I don't believe it is related to myocarditis.

I'm sorry to hear that and I hope it turns out to be nothing.

It's important to remember that you are n=1 and the timing could be a coincidence. It could be the vaccine. It could be stress from the pandemic causing angina. It could be lifestyle (do you exercise every day, eat healthily, sleep well, manage stress? - if not then angina in your 30s/40s is common).

It could even, as happened to a friend of mine, be a nerve issue in your chest muscles that's completely unrelated to your heart (aside: my friend was extremely relieved by this diagnosis which took quite a while to come by).

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#422

Post by dpedu »

sokoloff wrote: post #86
ivraatiems wrote: post #65

I would just like us all to stop pretending that any of one's fear of COVID or skepticism of vaccines or distrust of whoever or whatever is about rational calculated risks. It's about how we feel, so let's talk about that. Look, everyone is scared of doing something until they're scared of not doing it. Everyone distrusts government until they trust it, and distrusts pharma until they trust it. Some people will wear…

Having some uncertainty around novel things seems reasonable. We were all uncertain around COVID and around new vaccines using a novel mechanism. People balanced those uncertainties differently. I took the course of asking people I generally trusted for their opinion and concluded that taking the vaccines (3 for me so far, plus a bout of naturally-acquired resistance via infection) was indicated. There were other doc…

Sure there was and still is uncertainty, but we need to talk about the other side of that coin. You used the term novel, which means: "new and not resembling something formerly known or used" and that's just not the case here.

We didn't just invent a completely new vaccine mechanism for covid, the mRNA technology has been known and in development for half a century. This is just the first time it was effective. Likewise with the disease itself, we know that it shares a significant portion of its DNA with the disease behind the 2002 SARS-CoV pandemic and has many other similar parameters.

https://www.news-medical.net/health/How-does-SARS-CoV-2-Comp...

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#423

Post by ipqk »

no_butterscotch wrote: post #124
robomartin wrote: post #13

One of my kids, 15 at the time, was one of the reported cases of myocarditis. At the time of his hospitalization he was one out of 700 cases. He was in the hospital for two weeks. While under observation after his release, we have not seen indications of lasting damage. No way to know what the future holds. So far, so good. We are still not anti-vax at all. In fact, I might go for my next booster today. The one thing…

> We are still not anti-vax at all. In fact, I might go for my next booster today. I'm curious about this. In my world COVID is over now. I live in San Francisco. Nobody I know is getting boosters or is worried about it anymore. Where do you live and what are the circumstances like there that you're considering getting your "next" one? (you've been boosted before?).

People aren't talking about it anymore, but that doesn't mean that they aren't getting boosters. Like, I just got my flu shot, but haven't mentioned it to anyone.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#424

Post by nomel »

jjcon wrote: post #230
nomel wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It became political, causing FDA heads to resign [1] after threats [2]. And now, the latest booster was approved with no human trials at all [3]. 1. https://www.businessinsider.com/2-top-fda-officials-resigned... 2. https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/11/white-house-threatens-to-fir... 3. https://www.health.com/news/new-covid-boosters-human-testing...

Flu shots don't require human trials either, should covid be all that different (genuine question) if so why?

Clearly, the flu shots are fairly established science (1945, 77 years), of a well researched virus. They're not a new form of vaccine delivery, pushed through on an emergency basis, with exclusions to testing, with legal protection against any damages for those exclusions, and 70 year trial document release plans.

Could you help me understand why you think the context is so similar between the two?

What's your opinion on members of the FDA leaving due to widely publicized political pressure to approve the vaccine? Do you think they were wrong for pushing back?

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#425

Post by VBprogrammer »

serf wrote: post #406
VBprogrammer wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please try to keep the level of discussion one step above junior school. Otherwise there is no point in us communicating further. I didn't say there are no risks but those risks must necessarily be very low, as otherwise with a sample size of billions of doses issued even effects in the 1 in a million would be readily identifiable.

>..risks must necessarily be very low, as otherwise with a sample size of billions of doses issued even effects in the 1 in a million would be readily identifiable. it's by no means easy to identify trends that are worth pursuing for a medical investigation in a varied cohort of a billion people, and poll size is only a single attribute -- this is made even harder during a vacination campaign that is trying to effect…

I agree with you that measuring precisely whether the vaccine was beneficial for 15 year olds or not is difficult.

However, at the same time we have people in sibling comments claiming to know multiple people with conditions ranging from changes to their menstrual cycle to death. This can't possibly be related to the vaccine at anything like the rate people are for some reason inclined to believe.

Personally I found the effects from the 3rd booster almost as bad as COVID itself so I'm unlikely to get another unless there is a compelling reason.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#426

Post by Izkata »

UncleOxidant wrote: post #349
hedora wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. In particular, the contents of the mRNA vaccines are a subset of what a covid infection produces. The anti-vax stance is similar to the claims that tightly regulated nicotine vapes are worse than high tar cigarettes. (Except that you can just choose to not smoke, of course.)

I hear a lot of anti-vaxy stuff about how the spike protein is damaging in itself (implying that you shouldn't get the vaccine because you'll have spike proteins flowing around in your blood), but they seem to ignore the fact that when you get actual covid the virus is multiplying in your cells and spike proteins are more widespread and more numerous. I see the argument here in this thread that the vaccine isn't real…

You're missing part of the argument: Vaccine-generated spike protein is free-floating, while virus-generated spike protein is attached to the virus. The free-floating spike protein is a lot smaller than the virus, so it can get a lot more places, and while some will break off of the virus and become free-floating it wouldn't be in anywhere near as large amounts as vaccine-generated spike protein.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#427

Post by pandeiro »

jjcon wrote: post #268
walterbell wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flu shots were not mandated for work, study or travel.

Is anyone requiring boosters for work, study or travel? Not to my knowledge.

University of California

"With this recommendation, the UC Vaccine policy now requires all staff and students to get the bivalent booster, when eligible"

[1] https://campusready.ucdavis.edu/covid-vaccination

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#428

Post by thrown_22 »

mikysco wrote: post #232
sfusato wrote: post #7

Norway recommends booster doses for 65+ [0], Denmark for 50+ [1], Australia for 50+ [2], Sweeden for 65+ [3], Finland for 65+ [4]. United States recommends booster does for 5+ [5]. "The (Florida) State Surgeon General now recommends against the COVID-19 mRNA vaccines for males ages 18-39 years old." [6] [0] https://www.fhi.no/en/id/vaccines/coronavirus-immunisation-p... [1] https://www.sst.dk/en/English/Corona-eng/Va…

The obvious explanation for other country's vaccine recommendations is based in data. COVID kills the elderly (75+) who are more likely to be battling multiple negative health conditions beyond COVID. https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#demographicsoverti...

> The obvious explanation for other country's vaccine recommendations is based in data. COVID kills the elderly (75+) who are more likely to be battling multiple negative health conditions beyond COVID.

That something so obvious was enough to get you labeled a conspiracy theorist and banned off all major social media for close to two years has set back trust in science by decades.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#429

Post by xracy »

dekhn wrote: post #365
xracy wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is wild to me that people look at a number like 3/1,000,000 and don't think wow, that's 1900 Children who could die from something we have a vaccine for, that actively prevents the cause. Also, can you imagine losing a child to something that was preventable? You can play numbers and statistics all day, but we're talking about children's lives. You're probably not a parent? But for reference, go find examples of p…

You're trying to do "appeal to emotion" argument, doesn't work super well here.

If you want my "appeal to numbers" argument, you can see it all over this thread.

It seems like I'm getting a continual -2 on votes for all of my arguments just cause I'm coming off as "pro-vaccine". So it doesn't actually seem to matter what appeals I make.

Also though, I don't really believe I'm changing anyone's mind on this. I'm just inviting people consider the humanity of things like "child deaths". Which, is much easier to consider as a number than it is as an actual concept.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#430

Post by Izkata »

puffoflogic wrote: post #377
UncleOxidant wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear a lot of anti-vaxy stuff about how the spike protein is damaging in itself (implying that you shouldn't get the vaccine because you'll have spike proteins flowing around in your blood), but they seem to ignore the fact that when you get actual covid the virus is multiplying in your cells and spike proteins are more widespread and more numerous. I see the argument here in this thread that the vaccine isn't real…

> the virus is multiplying in your cells The mRNA vaccines work by causing the spike protein to multiply in your cells. Yes, the mechanism is different - the virus copies itself and the spike protein just happens to be part of the virus, whereas the vaccine mRNA just causes the spike protein itself to be copied. Note that with the vaccine, you're getting a massive number of cells "infected" all at once, equivalent to…

> The main difference in result is that with the mRNA, there is an upper bound to the number of cells which can be infected

Reverse-transcriptase enzyme in liver cells in a lab has been shown to convert the mRNA vaccines into DNA. While it's unclear if it would actually be a permanent change to cells, DNA is a lot more stable than RNA and could hang around a lot longer than expected, and result in a lot more spike protein than expected.

https://www.mdpi.com/1467-3045/44/3/73

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