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Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

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Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#261

Post by wwweston »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #63
sfusato wrote: post #7

Norway recommends booster doses for 65+ [0], Denmark for 50+ [1], Australia for 50+ [2], Sweeden for 65+ [3], Finland for 65+ [4]. United States recommends booster does for 5+ [5]. "The (Florida) State Surgeon General now recommends against the COVID-19 mRNA vaccines for males ages 18-39 years old." [6] [0] https://www.fhi.no/en/id/vaccines/coronavirus-immunisation-p... [1] https://www.sst.dk/en/English/Corona-eng/Va…

Worth noting, the Florida Surgeon General's opinion was lambasted in the mainstream media as him embracing conspiracy theories (and there is some interesting added context there as to why they believe so). Which... maybe two things are true at once. Perhaps he was - but also, perhaps his stance is not that radical. Radical compared to most Surgeon Generals in the United States; but on an international level? https://…

There's a lot of daylight between "recommendations for some higher age groups, no recommendation for lower age groups" and "recommendation against for lower age groups." The international recommendations cited above seem to be in the former category. Florida's recommendations seem to be in the latter. This might make them an outlier.

Whether it makes them conspiracy theorists is another matter. If their position is sound, well, sound positions can be embraced for sound or unsound reasons. If their position is unsound, of course it will be for unsound reasons. So whether they're called conspiracy theorists matters much less than their reasons.

What are their reasons? They appear to cite a large relative increase in myocarditis risk in younger men. A statistically literate response would involve asking what the absolute increase is... and the proper place to reckon with relative comparison would be vs the unvaccinated infected:

https://www.heart.org/en/news/2022/08/22/covid-19-infection-...

I would absolutely recommend anyone wondering about a specific vaccination consult with a doctor or two (I do this and have had a certain class of vaccines contraindicated). But no red flags from medical pros on this one for me, and personally, even as a man outside the high-risk age groups, I can't remotely see a reason for assuming myocarditis would be a reason for avoiding the vaccine. As far as I can tell, it's almost on the order of your lifetime chance of being struck by lightning, and the chance of developing myocarditis from infection is significantly higher.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#262

Post by linuxftw »

ivraatiems wrote: post #216
linuxftw wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The fact is that we've turned into a society where we can't even be unified in trying to prevent disease The vaccines weren't trialed and aren't approved to prevent the spread of the disease....so? I don't know about you, but I actually read the FDA's initial report on the Pfizer trials, and it was complete nonsense. They didn't even test each participant for covid, only some participants, with no clear reasoning a…

> gene therapy drugs The use of this term to describe an mRNA vaccine suggests you do not understand how these vaccines work whatsoever. I am not surprised you didn't understand the FDA's report given that you don't understand how the vaccines work at all.

A vaccine requires an antigen. There's no antigen in the mRNA or Adeno-vector vaccines. I'm not willing to pretend that these new medical products are in any way similar to the previous technology.

Gene therapy accurately describes the drug's effect. It injects instructions into your cells to replicate a protein, that's gene therapy. In this case, rather than treating some disease, it's designed to provoke an immune response. Hard pass.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#263

Post by peterbell_nyc »

eftychis wrote: post #150
no_butterscotch wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We are still not anti-vax at all. In fact, I might go for my next booster today. I'm curious about this. In my world COVID is over now. I live in San Francisco. Nobody I know is getting boosters or is worried about it anymore. Where do you live and what are the circumstances like there that you're considering getting your "next" one? (you've been boosted before?).

People I know are getting COVID in the Bay Area -- multiple weeks sick (I can count at least 6 -- in the moment -- for the span of middle of October until now). We are still in the pandemic. The problem is it has to stop everywhere for us to get complacent. Especially, given that everyone wants to travel -- and travel abroad. Pandemic is here. Nothing is over. We are distracted with other things. Things are "good" in…

Same here. I live just north of NYC and it seems like pretty much everyone is getting covid. Luckily, mortality attributed to covid is continuing to decrease suggesting it's becoming less of an issue (in terms of deaths), but even with ~320 deaths a day, we're still looking at over 100k dying in the US every year of covid - despite the fact that a lot of the most vulnerable already died.

I think we just have a new normal in terms of life expectancy and mortality :(

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#264

Post by nicoburns »

walterbell wrote: post #238
mikysco wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The obvious explanation for other country's vaccine recommendations is based in data. COVID kills the elderly (75+) who are more likely to be battling multiple negative health conditions beyond COVID. https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#demographicsoverti...

No, those countries initially gave the Covid injections to all adults, then altered their recommendations to exclude some young adults, based on post-vaccine adverse events. https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/finland-pauses-use-mode... > Finland on Thursday paused the use of Moderna's COVID-19 vaccine for younger males due to reports of a rare cardiovascular side effect, joining Sweden and Denmark in limiting its u…

They haven't changed the advice for the initial 2 doses. They have given different advice for additional booster doses. Which, per there own guidance seems to be largely because people already have immunity (either through vaccination or infection), and younger populations are not considered to require additional immunity.

For example, from the second link above (Denmark):

> Why are people aged under 50 not to be re-vaccinated?

> The purpose of the vaccination programme is to prevent severe illness, hospitalisation and death. Therefore, people at the highest risk of becoming severely ill will be offered booster vaccination. The purpose of vaccination is not to prevent infection with covid-19, and people aged under 50 are therefore currently not being offered booster vaccination.

> People aged under 50 are generally not at particularly higher risk of becoming severely ill from covid-19. In addition, younger people aged under 50 are well protected against becoming severely ill from covid-19, as a very large number of them have already been vaccinated and have previously been infected with covid-19, and there is consequently good immunity among this part of the population.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#265

Post by ryandrake »

eftychis wrote: post #150
no_butterscotch wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We are still not anti-vax at all. In fact, I might go for my next booster today. I'm curious about this. In my world COVID is over now. I live in San Francisco. Nobody I know is getting boosters or is worried about it anymore. Where do you live and what are the circumstances like there that you're considering getting your "next" one? (you've been boosted before?).

People I know are getting COVID in the Bay Area -- multiple weeks sick (I can count at least 6 -- in the moment -- for the span of middle of October until now). We are still in the pandemic. The problem is it has to stop everywhere for us to get complacent. Especially, given that everyone wants to travel -- and travel abroad. Pandemic is here. Nothing is over. We are distracted with other things. Things are "good" in…

Yea, it's not even remotely over. People are bored of it, and it makes them sad, so a lot of them stopped taking precautions, but it's not over. It just ripped through my family in Florida (again) since nobody is masking there and everyone is just carrying on as if it were 2019. My kid's school seems to perpetually has a case or two. I take it seriously by getting boosted, masking, continuing to avoid crowds and public places that are indoors, and I intend to keep doing so. People act like it's a TV show that got cancelled or something. Nuts.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#266

Post by speeder »

hitpointdrew wrote: post #4

Seems like this should have been a requirement before any emergency use authorization, and certainly before any mandates. The fact that this research is just now being done ought to be enough to immediately revoke the FDA emergency use authorizations and pull the product from the shelves. The covid vaccines have been a complete and utter disaster at every level. The erosion of trust in the institutions that are suppo…

I think now I can finally write this in public: I didn't take COVID vaccine at all, because for coincidental reasons, my dad ended taking it first. Despite the fact he is already 50+ he had really severe, but thankfully mostly temporary cardiac side effects (mostly, because even months later he needed to go to his cardiologist and change his cardiac-related medicine, because since the vaccine his blood levels changed and he kept having weird symptoms).

Since my dad had his health go so poorly after the vaccine, I decided to not risk it, specially considering my existing conditions.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#267

Post by DebtDeflation »

beebmam wrote: post #175
throwaway09223 wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A two week hospital stay is orders of magnitude more than $10k, so presumably the $10k representes the out of pocket portion of the care. I suspect the maximum annual out of pocket.

Exactly right. People with insurance have zero idea how much medical care actually costs because it's really hard to keep up with all the health insurance documents one receives. Try being hospitalized without insurance. You'll find out really fast. (I was, twice, circa 2010. I was unemployed and uninsured)

People who get their insurance through their employer also typically have no idea how much their insurance premium costs because the average employer pays 70-80% of the actual monthly premium and what gets deducted from your paycheck every month is just the remainder.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#268

Post by jjcon »

walterbell wrote: post #235
jjcon wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flu shots don't require human trials either, should covid be all that different (genuine question) if so why?

Flu shots were not mandated for work, study or travel.

Is anyone requiring boosters for work, study or travel? Not to my knowledge.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#269

Post by adolph »

wwweston wrote: post #261
gjsman-1000 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Worth noting, the Florida Surgeon General's opinion was lambasted in the mainstream media as him embracing conspiracy theories (and there is some interesting added context there as to why they believe so). Which... maybe two things are true at once. Perhaps he was - but also, perhaps his stance is not that radical. Radical compared to most Surgeon Generals in the United States; but on an international level? https://…

There's a lot of daylight between "recommendations for some higher age groups, no recommendation for lower age groups" and "recommendation against for lower age groups." The international recommendations cited above seem to be in the former category. Florida's recommendations seem to be in the latter. This might make them an outlier. Whether it makes them conspiracy theorists is another matter. If their position is s…

Is someone a conspiracy theorist if they conjecture about conspiracies or because they conspire with others to promote a theory?

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#270

Post by AnthonBerg »

vikingerik wrote: post #96
kitsunesoba wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seeing how family who got infected prior to vaccine availability are still suffering brain fog and lack of energy even now, I am too. The long term effects of covid concern me far more than those of the vaccine do.

Remember the right comparison regarding apparent long-Covid: What proportion of people would self-report brain fog and lack of energy anyway, with nothing to do with Covid?

This sort of claim has been made after a study was released that took the presence of SARS-CoV-2 antibodies as the source of thruth for whether people had gotten COVID-19.

This sort of claim can’t be made on that basis because a lot of people do not produce antibodies after infection.

Paper: “Predictors of Nonseroconversion after SARS-CoV-2 Infection” – https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/27/9/21-1042_article

Abstract: “Not all persons recovering from severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) infection develop SARS-CoV-2–specific antibodies. We show that nonseroconversion is associated with younger age and higher reverse transcription PCR cycle threshold values and identify SARS-CoV-2 viral loads in the nasopharynx as a major correlate of the systemic antibody response.”

Please note that this was already known when the study which is taken to show that people are imagining long COVID was published.

It’s not a good study.

Quite a bit of research has been done since then which further pins down the fact that long COVID is very real and how to diagnose it with biomarkers, which turn out to correspond very well with people saying that a SARS-CoV-2 infection messed them up.

Please also consider how harshly judgemental it appears when someone accuses a large number of people of imagining or making up a severe and disabling condition. You have to be very certain.

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