Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins • Hacker News Board

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#61

Post by throwaway049 » Mon, Nov 14, 2022, 7:11 PM UTC

wrycoder wrote: post #8

hitpointdrew wrote: post #4

Seems like this should have been a requirement before any emergency use authorization, and certainly before any mandates. The fact that this research is just now being done ought to be enough to immediately revoke the FDA emergency use authorizations and pull the product from the shelves. The covid vaccines have been a complete and utter disaster at every level. The erosion of trust in the institutions that are suppo…

As soon as the EUAs were issued, the vaccine manufacturers shut down clinical trial followup and, in many cases, allowed vaccination of the control branch of the trials. Same for Paxlovid, where support for independent trials was refused.

'allowed vaccination of the control branch'

People in the control branch were told they were controls so that they had the option to get the newly-authorized vaccine for real. Standard practice for trials that go well.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#62

Post by thrwy_918 » Mon, Nov 14, 2022, 7:11 PM UTC

robomartin wrote: post #13

One of my kids, 15 at the time, was one of the reported cases of myocarditis. At the time of his hospitalization he was one out of 700 cases. He was in the hospital for two weeks. While under observation after his release, we have not seen indications of lasting damage. No way to know what the future holds. So far, so good. We are still not anti-vax at all. In fact, I might go for my next booster today. The one thing…

> Obamacare, which was forced upon us and costs us $2,400 PER MONTH, did not cover it

Can you expand on this please? I find it extremely hard to understand how an ACA-compliant health care plan could "not cover" a hospital stay for myocarditis. Unless you're on a high-deductible plan and the entire stay was less than your deductible?

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#63

Post by gjsman-1000 » Mon, Nov 14, 2022, 7:11 PM UTC

sfusato wrote: post #7

Norway recommends booster doses for 65+ [0], Denmark for 50+ [1], Australia for 50+ [2], Sweeden for 65+ [3], Finland for 65+ [4]. United States recommends booster does for 5+ [5]. "The (Florida) State Surgeon General now recommends against the COVID-19 mRNA vaccines for males ages 18-39 years old." [6] [0] https://www.fhi.no/en/id/vaccines/coronavirus-immunisation-p... [1] https://www.sst.dk/en/English/Corona-eng/Va…

Worth noting, the Florida Surgeon General's opinion was lambasted in the mainstream media as him embracing conspiracy theories (and there is some interesting added context there as to why they believe so). Which... maybe two things are true at once. Perhaps he was - but also, perhaps his stance is not that radical. Radical compared to most Surgeon Generals in the United States; but on an international level?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/10/21/florida-c...

https://wusfnews.wusf.usf.edu/health-news-florida/2022-10-12...

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/10/11/medical-experts-rej...

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/scientists-pan-analysis-florid...

https://www.tampabay.com/opinion/2022/10/15/they-are-right-w...

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#64

Post by scifibestfi » Mon, Nov 14, 2022, 7:11 PM UTC

robomartin wrote: post #13

One of my kids, 15 at the time, was one of the reported cases of myocarditis. At the time of his hospitalization he was one out of 700 cases. He was in the hospital for two weeks. While under observation after his release, we have not seen indications of lasting damage. No way to know what the future holds. So far, so good. We are still not anti-vax at all. In fact, I might go for my next booster today. The one thing…

You're not angered that you were advised to give this to a 15 year old with no upside even after he was hospitalized for 2 weeks as a result?!

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#65

Post by ivraatiems » Mon, Nov 14, 2022, 7:12 PM UTC

I would just like us all to stop pretending that any of one's fear of COVID or skepticism of vaccines or distrust of whoever or whatever is about rational calculated risks. It's about how we feel, so let's talk about that.

Look, everyone is scared of doing something until they're scared of not doing it. Everyone distrusts government until they trust it, and distrusts pharma until they trust it. Some people will wear their mask in the grocery store even though it's a cloth mask that's as good as doing nothing because now it feels weird not to. Some people won't take the COVID vaccine but they'll happily take remdesivir and ivermectin. (Who do you think makes remdesivir and ivermectin?) Some people will happily go to an indoor comic convention that's an hour's drive from them, but not to an outdoor wedding, because it would mean getting on a plane (this actually happened with a family member of mine and I am not over it).

All of which is to say that what people are really doing is going with their gut. If your gut instinct is "COVID's not a big deal", then of course taking an emergency-use-authorized vaccine for it seems risky. If your gut instinct is "COVID is dangerous and deadly", you'll take anything you can get. Now that things are subsiding, and the fear is waning, I read an article like this and I think "hmm, that does seem bad, we should look into it, but also I am gonna keep doing what I'm doing and getting my COVID vaccine because it seems like it's helping." On the other hand, you have people who are literally dying of COVID who are still relieved they were able to dodge getting the vaccine because it felt scary to get a not-fully-tested drug.

So I'm pro-vaccine because they seem like a good idea and my experiences with them (four shots so far) have been positive, in that my side effects were limited and I know there were situations where I could have gotten COVID and I didn't. (And when I did get COVID, it was extremely mild.) Who's to say how I'd have felt if I were one of the few cases of myocarditis out there? Who's to say how I would've felt if I'd had mild COVID and recovered from it pre-vaccine? What if I'd been hospitalized with COVID pre-vaccine?

Can we just admit this isn't about logic or statistics, and never was? It was always a persuasion game either way.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#66

Post by Xylakant » Mon, Nov 14, 2022, 7:12 PM UTC

anon291 wrote: post #46

queuebert wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Covid has killed millions. How many have died of myocarditis? While I agree with your sentiment, it's hyperbolic to claim the vaccine has done "exponentially more damage than the virus".

Quoted post unavailable.

This is not a good rule if taken to the extreme. Almost all medical procedures have an associated risk, some higher. The key question is whether the risk outweighs the benefits.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#67

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Nov 14, 2022, 7:12 PM UTC

origin_path wrote: post #5

I'm very skeptical about their numbers. Some time in 2021 there was a story about COVID vaccines and heart issues here on HN. The comments filled up with people saying that ever since they'd got their shots they were experiencing new heart-related symptoms they'd never had previously like permanently racing heartbeats, palpitations/fluttering, inability to do exercise and more. Unfortunately I'm not sure how to re-fi…

[deleted]

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#68

Post by Enginerrrd » Mon, Nov 14, 2022, 7:12 PM UTC

twerkmonsta wrote: post #37

kitsunesoba wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seeing how family who got infected prior to vaccine availability are still suffering brain fog and lack of energy even now, I am too. The long term effects of covid concern me far more than those of the vaccine do.

[flagged]

I'm glad the emergency use authorization allowed people who are interested to get the vaccine. I don't think mandates were ever appropriate, and I think people should also have had a right to NOT get the vaccine.

The emergency use authorization seemed absolutely like the appropriate course of action given the circumstances.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#69

Post by uptownfunk » Mon, Nov 14, 2022, 7:13 PM UTC

robomartin wrote: post #13

One of my kids, 15 at the time, was one of the reported cases of myocarditis. At the time of his hospitalization he was one out of 700 cases. He was in the hospital for two weeks. While under observation after his release, we have not seen indications of lasting damage. No way to know what the future holds. So far, so good. We are still not anti-vax at all. In fact, I might go for my next booster today. The one thing…

[flagged]

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#70

Post by ivraatiems » Mon, Nov 14, 2022, 7:13 PM UTC

anon291 wrote: post #45

ivraatiems wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The covid vaccines have been a complete and utter disaster at every level. Sure, except for the 20+ million lives they saved: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3... https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2022/06/covid-19... > The erosion of trust in the institutions that are supposed to protect consumers has alone done exponentially more damage than the virus it self. Source needed. Re…

> Sure, except for the 20+ million lives they saved: There is no reason to expect 20 million people in the United States would have died if we had taken a european approach to vaccination approvals.

It's 20+ million worldwide, not in the US.