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What You (Want to)* Want

paulgraham.com

111–120 of 189 posts

Re: What You (Want to)* Want

#111
post #102
post #93

"You can do what you want, but you can't want to want what you want." I've read many of PG's essays, but this one feels like GPT-3 wrote it. It's borderline gibberish. Like he trained an AI on all his other essays, fed it the essay title, and this was the result. I half-expect a year from now that he'll tell us all his recent essays were written by this AI and it's now the core IP in some recent YC investment.

Not only that, but he got it totally wrong. It's not that people change what they want, it is that they think they want something, but then they discover that they were wrong . Also, what you want changes over time, but not because you decide to want something new, or to stop wanting something. It just happens . The best example of this is going through puberty, where you develop desires that you didn't have before.…

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Re: What You (Want to)* Want

#112

Schopenhauer: "Man can do what he wills, but he cannot will what he wills." I've wrestled with this question from time to time and, to the extent I've found a solution, the key is duration: In the short term, choices are mutable (but determined by character), and character is fixed. In the long term, character is mutable, and determined by some inner nature plus the integral of experience, influence, and choice. Ther…

So, Action: Act(Environment|Character) Reflection: Act(Character|Environment) An agent has free will iff it engages in action reflection cycles. Also: An agent A "could have taken" action X vs Y: ActX(Env|CharA) vs ActY(Env|CharB) in the sense that there is a graph "of some sort" linking their CharA to the CharB which could realise ActY. Eg., Bob can either steal the money or return it. Bob chooses to steal it. Bob i…

This is a very interesting definition of "free will" and not one I would expect most philosophers to agree with, but more measurable and useful than most would propose. In this case "free will" reduces to self-modifying action with randomness injected by the environment, which feels more like a stochastic model than genuine self-determination. That said, the existence of a "reflection" function is still the primary determinant of any moral responsibility.

Re: What You (Want to)* Want

#114
Maybe I'm the only one who liked it, but I found the essay nice as it gives a simple model to understand ourselves better.

Here's my take on it: there're many things out there (musical genre like classical music, cooking like Indian, French, Ethiopian) and your utility function has coefficients for most of them.

When you don't know the coefficient, you try, and you come with a quick conclusion (like or don't like) that can be further refined by experience (ex: like Indian food, vegetarian Indian food is ok-ish, vegan Indian food nope)

Sometimes you want to alter the coefficient because it can create conflict with your identity (what if you're vegan? what if your parents are Indian?) or other things.

Sometimes you succeed through different methods, sometimes you just can't.

And there're things you like you shouldn't, because of society (taboos, or banned substances) or the consequences on yourself (addictions, risks for your future health) but it's just the same thing: trying to alter the coefficient in your utility function.

It may be worth it (learning something new) or futile (something you just can't change) which leads us to Seneca prayer (the wisdom to separate the two, knowing the battles you can win to avoid wasting effort). And there's another dimension if it's possible: the amount of effort required, which might be measured in years (and what if you're old and bound to fail?)

Personally, I find it simpler to go epicurian and if I find something new I enjoy (right now, Russian rap lol) just enjoy it without asking myself too many questions.

And if I don't like something or have no want for something I should like (Drill rap, Trap rap), I don't force myself but don't exclude it out of my life either: I leave that to serendipity :)

Re: What You (Want to)* Want

#115
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To the best of our ability we haven't been able to detect any signs of any strings which might point to a puppet master or any mechanism by which anything as potentially informationally massive as randomness could be transferred to 'our' universe.

Not quite: there are millions of people who claim the existence of a God(s), or claim to have had "experiences" with the same. However, to those raised in secular environments, these claims "have" "no" validity, but this is actually just the model of reality built by the mind (what "is", in "reality"), which is heavily influenced by the metaphysical framework one was raised/trained on, or exists within . Philosophy (…

I think people do not deny those religious experiences because there are experiments to trigger them and the experiences can be observed for instance using brain scans.

But what scientists deny is that we see any prove that these experiences have any supernatural cause.

Re: What You (Want to)* Want

#116
post #10

I probably don't have much to contribute, but I wanted to share some thoughts on the concept of free will Paul seems to brush against. I found the concept of free will at odds with my opinion that the brain and physics are very deterministic. But one thing the "free will doesn't exist" people tend to forget, is that the brain rewires and changes itself. You are destined to do what your brain is wired to do, but doing…

Your description of rewiring the brain is an extra feedback loop, makes the system more complex but doesn't break determinism. Regardless, even if the world isn't deterministic through e.g. quantum mechanics, throwing dice to decide your next turn isn't "free will" and doesn't make the case for free will any stronger.

Suppose there are n number of hidden, indeterminate variables in your environment... "You," the individual observer, are free to choose the important variables to navigate life. Your "mind" is the thing which assigns value to hidden variables in your environment but "the mind" is not you... the "mind," from my perspective, is the mirror upon which we witness/experience every day reality/waking life, etc.

If you think rolling dice is important, it is. If you think randomness will effect and experiment, it will. If you don't think randomness is important, it probably is... (a thing is defined by what it is not.)

When you assign an indeterminate (X) value to randomness, this is chaos. If/when you think or realize chaos is an important part of free will... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Are you personally unable to select new variables or assign different "weights"? If so, I contend, you don't exist.

Re: What You (Want to)* Want

#117
post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not quite: there are millions of people who claim the existence of a God(s), or claim to have had "experiences" with the same. However, to those raised in secular environments, these claims "have" "no" validity, but this is actually just the model of reality built by the mind (what "is", in "reality"), which is heavily influenced by the metaphysical framework one was raised/trained on, or exists within . Philosophy (…

I think people do not deny those religious experiences because there are experiments to trigger them and the experiences can be observed for instance using brain scans. But what scientists deny is that we see any prove that these experiences have any supernatural cause.

> I think people do not deny those religious experiences because there are experiments to trigger them and the experiences can be observed for instance using brain scans.

Some people, sure....but many people deny the validity/genuineness of them, or the potential existence of the supernatural all the time - it's practically a sport on Reddit, not all that uncommon right here on HN, and something I have experienced many, many times with real scientists in zoom meetings. Let's not forget: scientists are first and foremost humans.

> But what scientists deny is that we see any prove that these experiences have any supernatural cause.

Some scientists practice strict/disciplined epistemology, and others do not (I have observed it with my own eyes) and go on to assert/imply that it is a fact that there is no God(s), and that these experiences are only [in fact] delusions, the drugs, social/psychological conditioning (ironically), etc.

And if one is to ask them some pointed questions, the response typically descends rapidly to rhetoric and personal attacks. You can even explicitly point out to people what they are doing, but they are not able to stop - often, they will act as if they did not even see the text pointing out their behavior, even if that phenomenon is pointed out in subsequent messages!

I truly believe that there are certain topics that throw even the most powerful minds into a state of disarray. Extra interesting: it seems like most can acknowledge that they are subject to bias, logical fallacies, etc if the topic of conversation is directly about these psychological phenomena....but if the topic is not that, but rather from a particular subset of special ideas (culture war topics, certain instances of the unknown), this knowledge and ability vanishes.

I think it would be rather hilarious if this phenomenon is actually a very big deal (with regard to affairs on Earth), but people are unable to address it (or even manifest curiosity) because of the phenomenon. Plausibly, ~success could be within reach, but we are unable to reach out and grab onto it.

Meanwhile: things like climate change "are" (so it is claimed/perceived) "a big deal". So much wasted potential.

Re: What You (Want to)* Want

#118
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After a while the speed at which a fan turns in a circle in order to move heated air off a CPU stops being interesting and larger questions that aren't as falsifiable start to seem interesting since they have so many implications to the practical questions that do matter. For example, "does God exist?" has huge influence on how we think of why wars are caused. The trouble is that much of philosophy is castles built o…

At least for me -- and I'm certain I'm not alone on this -- what makes a question interesting is not the question itself but rather how one approaches it. To what extent humans and other life forms have agency is a question one can approach with things like neuroscience or with things like vacuous word salad. > The trouble is that much of philosophy is castles built on sand. Most serious philosophers would agree with…

> Most serious philosophers would agree with the idea that scientific evidence is a good way to rule out beliefs inconsistent with reality.

And how did they get to that conclusion? The answer of whether or not the mind or the senses can be relied upon as a path to bedrock truth is something that cannot be found with scientific inquiry because it begs the question.

> Almost zero serious economists are marxists, almost zero serious philosophers embrace Spinoza with no revisions, and please don't read Ayn Rand.

It is precisely that these philosophers were so well followed, and presently rejected, that I enumerated them as examples of castles built on sand. The very same thing could be said of Russell. If there were a public event, more apparent than even the nuclear explosions that went off in Japan, that was strong evidence for the First Cause argument much of Russell turns to mush.

That a philosopher is serious or not is a function of time and opinion. Not veracity.

> what makes a question interesting

What makes your response interesting to me is that Russel had the very same counterargument to Solipsism and in my opinion Russel decided that he couldn't find the rock so he built his philosophy on sand.

This question was important to me so I went searching in philosophy and I found some value there, some manners of perception that proved useful, but it, in my opinion, is a largely broken field.

Re: What You (Want to)* Want

#119
post #11

Why is PG writing these pseudo-scientific metaphysical posts? His last post on Alien Truth was a disaster. Now this? I normally enjoy PG's writings! His writings on Lisp had good influence on me. But these recent posts are embarrassing. How can someone who has had so much influence in tech communities bring themselves to write these pseudo-scientific posts so glibly?

A cursory reading gives the impression he expresses the ideas behind Sartre's "The Transcendence of the Ego"[1], which I consider one of the most influential texts I read as a teenager.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Transcendence_of_the_Ego

Re: What You (Want to)* Want

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was gonna say. This is very much discourse. It's someone's musings. What's so cringy about this? It never claims to be scientific; it never attempts to persuade or even really argue. 100% your twitter reference.

My beef with it is that it is a series of opinions stated in the form of facts. If the topic was something like programming, CPU's, etc this approach would not go over so well, but for certain topics it seems like concern for the truth is ~unacceptable. And why does this matter, at least plausibly? In my opinion, because of this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illusory_truth_effect I believe that if humans get the ide…

I can understand that. And I appreciate you sharing your opinion and thoughts on it. I'm not familiar with the Illusory truth effect but will get some reading into today (thanks for the link!)

In speaking. I try to approach things as always mutable. If I put a disclaimer in front of everything I state (when I perceive the I talk about to always be some form of a hypothesis based on the data that I currently have), it tends to slow down discourse and get very messy. In my mind, because I've already accepted the potential for bad data-- that's how I approach others works/papers. There are no absolute truths in anyone's words (or very likely period).

I understand your concerns around this (and at least from my current understanding of our social/political issues) and I agree. It is extremely dangerous and detrimental to hold beliefs like that. However, one could argue that a substantial portion of our society already holds those beliefs. They ignore the free will that they have and operate inside of the system that they perceive.

No real arguments/points here. Just chewing on things/"thinking out-loud". I think it's equally important for people to be able to share thoughts in an unformed state (in the right environment).

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