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What You (Want to)* Want

paulgraham.com

81–90 of 189 posts

Re: What You (Want to)* Want

#81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A very smart man, PG himself, once said [0]: > I actually worry a lot that as I get "popular" I'll be able to get away with saying stupider stuff than I would have dared say before. PG started writing essays about what he knows well (programming, start ups), then about things he knows a bit (painting) and then stuff like this, or his essays on economic policy. In any case, he predicted his own future quite well. [0]…

Popularity and power seem to do that to people quite often, don't say? Which is said, especially in PG's case, because I like his older essays a lot. The now ones, well, not so much.

Well, at least he kept this one short!

Re: What You (Want to)* Want

#82

I used to think that free will existed but now I am surprised we even think that. Just looking inwards is enough to convince me that I have no idea what I am going to think next, type next, or how I am even going to finish this sentence. It simply arrives and I am the first (and possibly only) one to experience it. I cannot will the will to will.

> I used to think that free will existed but now I am surprised we even think that. How about over a longer time period? For example, say you want to pickup a new good habit and get rid of a bad habit. When you start to intentionally make thousands of little choices over time that all add up to a major change in your life, can't you say that you freely chose that path? Even if each individual impulse along the way ma…

>want >intentionally >chose

None of these words make sense. I can't want what I want (author's thesis here). This higher level of abstraction that you talk about is an illusion caused by not paying attention. I can ruminate for years about how I am going to do this and that; but at the end of the day, the impetus to actually do it is still mysterious. I can't want to change. I just change. I just do the little things that shifts my life for the better and then one day just simply stop. I can forge some reasons as to why I change but I could have easily muster my way through it. Can I choose how much will power I have?

Now people will say because free will doesn't exist means that choices don't matter. It absolutely does. The fact that you "chose" to do good things matter. Because experiences matter. Because experience pain/suffering however you wish to define it is not a "good" thing.

I can perfectly understand some issues people have with this concept because it causes them trouble with their addiction/depression. But just because we tell lies like we always do in programming to facilitate discussion/teaching/abstraction does not mean that those things are not real. You don't want to make decisions on a national/scale on lies that you tell yourself to get to sleep.

Re: What You (Want to)* Want

#83
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Popularity and power seem to do that to people quite often, don't say? Which is said, especially in PG's case, because I like his older essays a lot. The now ones, well, not so much.

Well, at least he kept this one short!

True, others would have made a three hour podcast out of it. Potentially involving lobsters or something...

Re: What You (Want to)* Want

#84
post #11

Why is PG writing these pseudo-scientific metaphysical posts? His last post on Alien Truth was a disaster. Now this? I normally enjoy PG's writings! His writings on Lisp had good influence on me. But these recent posts are embarrassing. How can someone who has had so much influence in tech communities bring themselves to write these pseudo-scientific posts so glibly?

Disaster…?

It’s a cool old dude sharing his shower thoughts on the internet. What exactly are the negative consequences of these writeups?

It feels like such an overstatement that it makes me wonder if there’s something else at play here…

Re: What You (Want to)* Want

#85
post #11

Why is PG writing these pseudo-scientific metaphysical posts? His last post on Alien Truth was a disaster. Now this? I normally enjoy PG's writings! His writings on Lisp had good influence on me. But these recent posts are embarrassing. How can someone who has had so much influence in tech communities bring themselves to write these pseudo-scientific posts so glibly?

The post doesn't resonate with me either but it's not pseudo-scientific, it's philosophical. It might not be exactly Socrates but I was not aware that there was a bar for a blog post, nor do I think even Socrates produced great ideas only. It might be just a small step in creation of the model a man holds for free will, and he might even wake up tomorrow thinking he was completely wrong today. It's still valid to philosophize and put it in a personal blog.

Re: What You (Want to)* Want

#86

Schopenhauer: "Man can do what he wills, but he cannot will what he wills." I've wrestled with this question from time to time and, to the extent I've found a solution, the key is duration: In the short term, choices are mutable (but determined by character), and character is fixed. In the long term, character is mutable, and determined by some inner nature plus the integral of experience, influence, and choice. Ther…

So,

Action: Act(Environment|Character)

Reflection: Act(Character|Environment)

An agent has free will iff it engages in actionreflection cycles.

Also:

An agent A "could have taken" action X vs Y: ActX(Env|CharA) vs ActY(Env|CharB) in the sense that there is a graph "of some sort" linking their CharA to the CharB which could realise ActY.

Eg., Bob can either steal the money or return it. Bob chooses to steal it. Bob is morally responsible for this act because there is a realisable "actionreflection" path from bob's actual character to the one he should have had. If bob had had this character, he would not have stolen.

Re: What You (Want to)* Want

#87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I used to think that free will existed but now I am surprised we even think that. How about over a longer time period? For example, say you want to pickup a new good habit and get rid of a bad habit. When you start to intentionally make thousands of little choices over time that all add up to a major change in your life, can't you say that you freely chose that path? Even if each individual impulse along the way ma…

>want >intentionally >chose None of these words make sense. I can't want what I want (author's thesis here). This higher level of abstraction that you talk about is an illusion caused by not paying attention. I can ruminate for years about how I am going to do this and that; but at the end of the day, the impetus to actually do it is still mysterious. I can't want to change. I just change. I just do the little things…

Thank you. I appreciate you wanting and choosing to respond.

Re: What You (Want to)* Want

#88

I used to think that free will existed but now I am surprised we even think that. Just looking inwards is enough to convince me that I have no idea what I am going to think next, type next, or how I am even going to finish this sentence. It simply arrives and I am the first (and possibly only) one to experience it. I cannot will the will to will.

As someone who's struggled with addiction most of my life, the idea that free will doesn't exist is worse than useless to me. The way we experience our lives indicates that we make choices and they have consequences. I don't know what kind of life you would have if you suddenly decided to stop making choices one day, but you would probably end up institutionalized if it didn't kill you first. Even if my choices are p…

If thinking about free will causes you suffering. I implore you to not read further. I do not intent to cause any suffering.

>The way we experience our lives indicates that we make choices and they have consequences

Even if we don't "make" our choices, why would that not matter? Experience matter (it's the only thing that matter). It still matters that some unconscious rock fell over your head. It matters that you "decides" to be better because that means that you will experience better life.

I am sorry to hear that you struggled with addiction and I can understand that some knowledge is poison. We do not drill the concept of suffering to our young children every waking minute of their life. That does not mean that any of those things are untrue. If your doctor consistently denies that death is a concept you would rightly be asking for a different one. Truth matters.

I have some addiction problems myself and I think free will is one of the most poisonous concept. It says that the lotus of blame is solely on me. _I_ have to decide to change and actually perform it. But we know better than that, we know that _I_ can be influenced. Therefore we know to avoid things that feeds into our addiction. I can't just "not do it".

>I have in fact done so on many occasions. At that point I didn't choose, RNG did.

You did not choose to follow this through. You could have easily said, "I am going to do the opposite of this to assert my free will! Take that!" and you didn't choose to do this either.

Re: What You (Want to)* Want

#89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>want >intentionally >chose None of these words make sense. I can't want what I want (author's thesis here). This higher level of abstraction that you talk about is an illusion caused by not paying attention. I can ruminate for years about how I am going to do this and that; but at the end of the day, the impetus to actually do it is still mysterious. I can't want to change. I just change. I just do the little things…

Thank you. I appreciate you wanting and choosing to respond.

You're welcome (as I smile not out of my free will)
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