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Meta fires a software engineer two days after he relocated from India to Canada

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Re: Meta fires a software engineer two days after he relocated from India to Canada

#381

Post by hnfong »

distcs wrote: post #297
pcf wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just two things: 1) Remember that a lot of tech people score higher on the autistic spectrum than normal people do. So most likely many of the commentators just don't have the biological wiring for feeling empathy like many others do. This might ease your mind a little. 2) Also remember that Musk would probably have given someone those three months to find other employment, seeing as he gave Twitter employees up to s…

> Remember that a lot of tech people score higher on the autistic spectrum than normal people do. They do? This comes as a surprise to me. It could very well be true but I would like a citation for this. Kind of finding it hard to just accept this for a fact because I have been hanging out with technical folks for a long time and most folks I hang out don't see to be high on the autistic spectrum.

Selection bias? Presumably those higher on the autistic spectrum prefer to hang out less with people.

Re: Meta fires a software engineer two days after he relocated from India to Canada

#382

Post by JeremyNT »

vintagedave wrote: post #130
mduggles wrote: post #66

I'm horrified by so many of the comments here that seem to lack even the most basic of human decency. Allow me to fill people in for those who have never uprooted your life and moved across the world for a job. It is a massive commitment on the part of the employee, where you sell the majority of your earthly possessions, property, cars, etc. Then you go through an immigration process which even if its handled by FAA…

> so many of the comments here that seem to lack even the most basic of human decency Reading them, so am I. There is no sign of empathy: that understanding of another individual, the ability to put oneself in someone else's shoes, that is fundamental to a healthy society and (IMO) personal integrity. I read a comment a few years ago that no-one thinks of themselves as a bad person. To yourself, you are always okay.…

It's unsurprising when you consider the history of Silicon Valley and the Randian philosophy that underpins everything. All problems can be solved by the union of entrepreneurship and technology, and anything that stands in the way of progress is a distraction.

There's an Adam Curtis documentary All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace [0] that I think is relevant. HN (and even at this point broader programmer "culture") is a "fruit of the poison tree" in a sense - the philosophy of individualism and "greed is good" runs deep.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_Watched_Over_by_Machines_o...

Re: Meta fires a software engineer two days after he relocated from India to Canada

#384

Post by HWR_14 »

jonp888 wrote: post #315
vintagedave wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> so many of the comments here that seem to lack even the most basic of human decency Reading them, so am I. There is no sign of empathy: that understanding of another individual, the ability to put oneself in someone else's shoes, that is fundamental to a healthy society and (IMO) personal integrity. I read a comment a few years ago that no-one thinks of themselves as a bad person. To yourself, you are always okay.…

If the total lack of employment rights (no maternity or paternity leave, no sick leave, no holidays, no protection against being fired) was applied in any other developed country, it would be the number 1 political topic every day until they were brought back. Ask an American active in tech-orientated social media about it, they'll invariably say "Oh, well of course that doesn't affect people like me".

> Ask an American active in tech-orientated social media about it, they'll invariably say "Oh, well of course that doesn't affect people like me".

Until they want to go to a restaurant, but it's been shut down because the owners couldn't get it in their head that they should pay more than minimum wage and no one wants to work for that. Or the restaurant is open, with employees who cannot afford to stay home even though they are contagious, and the tech people get sick. Or their boss wants to shrink the workforce by 10-50% and so they make it undesirable to be there to avoid paying severance.

And it has to be them, not people in the same position.

But it's only some Americans who think like that. Too broad a brush doesn't work.

Re: Meta fires a software engineer two days after he relocated from India to Canada

#385

Post by bilvar »

oblio wrote: post #261
erlich wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is crazy entitlement. Three months salary in a tech job is more than most people make in a year. If you are moving overseas, maybe wait before selling all your stuff until you pass probation. This idea that you should be guaranteed three months is so backwards. You are on trial. Tell me anyone’s advice that goes “we should fire slow, hire fast”.

Ok, let's ignore the selling stuff. Your partner also quits their good job. That good job might not be available if you come back, congratulations, you're back at years of job hunting and job hopping to be where you were years before. In the new country maybe this was not a concern and the other partner who was just laid off had a great salary to cover. Your kids leave their good school. Now that school no longer acc…

Weren't those risks understood well before accepting the job?

Re: Meta fires a software engineer two days after he relocated from India to Canada

#386

Post by bilvar »

luckylion wrote: post #323
oblio wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, let's ignore the selling stuff. Your partner also quits their good job. That good job might not be available if you come back, congratulations, you're back at years of job hunting and job hopping to be where you were years before. In the new country maybe this was not a concern and the other partner who was just laid off had a great salary to cover. Your kids leave their good school. Now that school no longer acc…

> Your partner also quits their good job. So you're going "all in", hoping for a giant reward (aka to make more in a year than the average Indian makes in their lifetime ). It doesn't work out. That's part of the risk of going all in. Or you don't go all in, you don't move your family immediately, and you have a much lower risk for the cost of paying for a flat in Canada and one in India for a few months until everyt…

Exactly, why do we keep absolving people from their personal decisions, expecting society to take the hit from the personal risks they take is beyond me. Like nobody wants to plan for their best-case scenario not materialising and when it doesn't it's the fault of everybody else that they find themselves in that situation.

Re: Meta fires a software engineer two days after he relocated from India to Canada

#387

Post by hnfong »

geodel wrote: post #206
mduggles wrote: post #66

I'm horrified by so many of the comments here that seem to lack even the most basic of human decency. Allow me to fill people in for those who have never uprooted your life and moved across the world for a job. It is a massive commitment on the part of the employee, where you sell the majority of your earthly possessions, property, cars, etc. Then you go through an immigration process which even if its handled by FAA…

Quoted post unavailable.

> in-demand , well paid professions.

Competing for jobs with 10k+ people who are more qualified than you during industry-wide hiring freezes must be fun.

Re: Meta fires a software engineer two days after he relocated from India to Canada

#388

Post by vlad »

rejectfinite wrote: post #276
genidoi wrote: post #219

So many commenters here (presumably US/CA citizens) don't realize that the gut-wrenching feeling of being laid off whilst your visa depends on uninterrupted employment is _nothing_ like the SHTF-but-all's-ok feeling of being laid off 'regularly'. In the USA, for most work visas, you are given a 60 day death clock pleasantly sugarcoated as a 'grace period' to find a new employer or leave the country. Cue trying weave…

And so many people are okay coming into another country and wage dump because "its their right" to move halfway across the world to work in the USA or EU. See stuff like: https://www.thelocal.se/20070523/7387/ You can't have it both ways. ---- I guess this is just CBS being racist :) https://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-h-1b-visas-have-been-abused ... "But this week on 60 Minutes, correspondent Bill Whitaker reports that…

I vouched for your post because you posted that companies abuse visas, with links. I don't see why it was flagged.

As far as Meta, I don't understand why recent articles criticize it. The engineers themselves are just posting on LinkedIn to seek new opportunities. This was Meta's first layoff and they're paying people for 3-4 months before the 60 day period even begins.

And when locals are let go, coworkers say "Oh, but it's good that you're not on a Visa". Should that really be a factor Meta takes into account when laying people off?

And for many tech companies, many or most of their engineering employees are on Visa; it's expected that percentage reflected in the layoffs, too.

Aside from Visas, Meta had a hiring freeze below E7 for most roles since May, which might be seen as a signal they were trying to preserve existing employees in favor of onboarding new ones.

Also, many people who last more than a week are later let go right before stock vests. Most everyone in that position will have wished they were let go their first week and got paid for four months, while they accept another offer from that same interview cycle.

Re: Meta fires a software engineer two days after he relocated from India to Canada

#389

Post by HWR_14 »

unethical_ban wrote: post #303
hnbad wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's even simpler: make 3 months notice mandatory across the board. Or heck, even 30 days notice would be a start. Of course there's no way you can rely on a corporation to do this voluntarily and regulation is unlikely given who pays the bills. I wish there was a way to make this happen but I keep hearing software workers don't need unions because we already make so much money and the better ones have nothing to wor…

3 months notice, while retaining access to company networks and campus? I support "keeping them on the books" for purposes of visa and health insurance, for example, but there are legitimate security reasons to have people cut off quickly when they've been laid off or fired.

I don't think anyone advocating the 3 months thinks you need to keep them doing something. You just need to keep providing the benefits (salary, health if in the US, visa, etc.) for 3 months. Even in the EU you don't have to let someone come in to the office during that time.

I suppose if you had really, really, really good meals provided, it would be reasonable to argue about whether that was a benefit or there for people in the office.

Re: Meta fires a software engineer two days after he relocated from India to Canada

#390

Post by FieryTransition »

newsclues wrote: post #353
sofixa wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But I don't understand the blind dedication to hate, especially when other politicians and leaders pull similar shenanigans and then there's crickets Do feel free to share examples of other politicians mocking disabled people, or bragging about sexual assault, or trying a coup or any of the millions of transgressions of trump and not facing any criticism.

Mocking disabled people is bad. Bragging about sexual assault is horrific. But let's talk about the stuff politicians do that is truly wrong and evil, like waging wars that kill people? Let's talk about the War on Terror and how many people died. Remember that the media and government sold the American people a bunch of lies to sell these wars. https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/costs/human/civilians/ir... 100,000+…

yeah, one of the real big issues are the government enabling alot of these wars and the dependency of a large part of the economy on the military-industrial complex, the morals thereof and the corruptional influence of the entities which want to further gain through military-industrial means, or justify it as as necessary at this point wrt. the economy.
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