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What You (Want to)* Want

paulgraham.com

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Re: What You (Want to)* Want

#51

Post by [deleted] »

3pt14159 wrote: post #44
distcs wrote: post #11

Why is PG writing these pseudo-scientific metaphysical posts? His last post on Alien Truth was a disaster. Now this? I normally enjoy PG's writings! His writings on Lisp had good influence on me. But these recent posts are embarrassing. How can someone who has had so much influence in tech communities bring themselves to write these pseudo-scientific posts so glibly?

After a while the speed at which a fan turns in a circle in order to move heated air off a CPU stops being interesting and larger questions that aren't as falsifiable start to seem interesting since they have so many implications to the practical questions that do matter. For example, "does God exist?" has huge influence on how we think of why wars are caused. The trouble is that much of philosophy is castles built o…

[deleted]

Re: What You (Want to)* Want

#52

Post by wccrawford »

I've had things I wanted to want, but didn't want. They were usually things that would have put me closer to the values of a group I was involved in.

An off-the-top-of-my-head example would be talking with friends about video games, and they start talking about physical art from the game that they bought and enjoy. I don't like having little knick-knacks around the the house, and I don't get enjoyment from them. But I see the joy they get from them, and I want that, too.

So I want to want those things, but I still don't want them.

Re: What You (Want to)* Want

#53

Post by jondeval »

I actually think PG is exploring something that is at the heart of what it means to be a human being.

Interestingly, the traditional teaching of Original Sin is that we are broken at the level of what we 'want'. The phrase commonly used is 'disordered desire'.

The key idea here is that if you want the wrong things, you are not actually free, even if you perceive yourself as choosing freely. As a corollary, the more you practice the good, the more you desire it, and the freer you become.

Re: What You (Want to)* Want

#54

Post by qsort »

3pt14159 wrote: post #44
distcs wrote: post #11

Why is PG writing these pseudo-scientific metaphysical posts? His last post on Alien Truth was a disaster. Now this? I normally enjoy PG's writings! His writings on Lisp had good influence on me. But these recent posts are embarrassing. How can someone who has had so much influence in tech communities bring themselves to write these pseudo-scientific posts so glibly?

After a while the speed at which a fan turns in a circle in order to move heated air off a CPU stops being interesting and larger questions that aren't as falsifiable start to seem interesting since they have so many implications to the practical questions that do matter. For example, "does God exist?" has huge influence on how we think of why wars are caused. The trouble is that much of philosophy is castles built o…

At least for me -- and I'm certain I'm not alone on this -- what makes a question interesting is not the question itself but rather how one approaches it.

To what extent humans and other life forms have agency is a question one can approach with things like neuroscience or with things like vacuous word salad.

> The trouble is that much of philosophy is castles built on sand.

Most serious philosophers would agree with the idea that scientific evidence is a good way to rule out beliefs inconsistent with reality.

Almost zero serious economists are marxists, almost zero serious philosophers embrace Spinoza with no revisions, and please don't read Ayn Rand.

Re: What You (Want to)* Want

#55

Post by SkyPuncher »

sph wrote: post #45
jagrsw wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It opens itself up to interesting interpretations ;). god(s) aka the simulation developer(s) playing with outcomes of quantum events in order to manipulate your/my behavior, punish the bad, reward the good, make the bushes burn etc. Since quantum events can have macroscopic outcomes, this should be possible? :)

It's probably due to artefacts and signal noise coming from the outer-system that contains our universe and/or the machine running our simulation, rather than God.

Combining this with an infinite universe theory, it could also just be random noise intentionally introduced to a specific "instance" of a universe.

Re: What You (Want to)* Want

#56

Post by nowherebeen »

qsort wrote: post #27
distcs wrote: post #11

Why is PG writing these pseudo-scientific metaphysical posts? His last post on Alien Truth was a disaster. Now this? I normally enjoy PG's writings! His writings on Lisp had good influence on me. But these recent posts are embarrassing. How can someone who has had so much influence in tech communities bring themselves to write these pseudo-scientific posts so glibly?

It's a long-standing tradition in the hacker community to delve into stuff one only has a cursory understanding of. At times it's productive, as it helps uncover intellectual impostures. At times it's just embarrassing.

Or does he have so much free time because of how wealthy he has become through YC that he has lost touch with reality. Now he spends all his free time thinking you can't want to want what you want. Or is it you can't (want to)* want what you want?

Re: What You (Want to)* Want

#58

Post by jean_tta »

distcs wrote: post #11

Why is PG writing these pseudo-scientific metaphysical posts? His last post on Alien Truth was a disaster. Now this? I normally enjoy PG's writings! His writings on Lisp had good influence on me. But these recent posts are embarrassing. How can someone who has had so much influence in tech communities bring themselves to write these pseudo-scientific posts so glibly?

A very smart man, PG himself, once said [0]: > I actually worry a lot that as I get "popular" I'll be able to get away with saying stupider stuff than I would have dared say before.

PG started writing essays about what he knows well (programming, start ups), then about things he knows a bit (painting) and then stuff like this, or his essays on economic policy. In any case, he predicted his own future quite well.

[0] quoted here https://idlewords.com/2005/04/dabblers_and_blowhards.htm from there http://lemonodor.com/archives/001091.html#c8508

Re: What You (Want to)* Want

#59

Post by SuoDuanDao »

sph wrote: post #10

I probably don't have much to contribute, but I wanted to share some thoughts on the concept of free will Paul seems to brush against. I found the concept of free will at odds with my opinion that the brain and physics are very deterministic. But one thing the "free will doesn't exist" people tend to forget, is that the brain rewires and changes itself. You are destined to do what your brain is wired to do, but doing…

Regarding reading suggestions, you'd probably like Wolfram's cellular Automata theory.

accessible intro: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ez773teNFYA

Re: What You (Want to)* Want

#60

Post by jondeval »

kajaktum wrote: post #15

I used to think that free will existed but now I am surprised we even think that. Just looking inwards is enough to convince me that I have no idea what I am going to think next, type next, or how I am even going to finish this sentence. It simply arrives and I am the first (and possibly only) one to experience it. I cannot will the will to will.

> I used to think that free will existed but now I am surprised we even think that.

How about over a longer time period? For example, say you want to pickup a new good habit and get rid of a bad habit. When you start to intentionally make thousands of little choices over time that all add up to a major change in your life, can't you say that you freely chose that path?

Even if each individual impulse along the way maintains a connection to a more materialist/deterministic set of causes, you can still meaningfully talk about your own free will at this higher level of abstraction. What am I missing?

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