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The Ethical Principles of Public Health

dc.hillsdale.edu

61–67 of 67 posts

Re: The Ethical Principles of Public Health

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All we have is now coercion. On account of figments of people's imagination. We could try embracing individual freedom. At least that won't be a fantasy.

I'm not sure I follow. Without a social contract, on what philosophical/moral grounds should I care about anyone else's individual freedom? If there's no philosophical/moral ground, then why does it matter whether or not something is a fantasy?

Firstly - there is no social contract - you (and I) signed nothing. No contract. Just training.

Secondly - the governance structure you have now, does not care about your freedoms. I think I can make a strong case that what we have is domination of everyone by the worst of us. We are being herded into some sort of techno-dystopia, and no one in the governance structure is doing anything apart from waving things through.

Thirdly - morality is real. At family gatherings you do not need the strong arm of the law. The strong arm of the law causes the events that put people in fear, so that it has a valid pretext to step in and assumes control - with people's blessing (as they are ignorant of the true circumstances).

What you have is a large scale protection racket. And you are arguing for it. You have a lack of imagination regards alternative (free) ways to live, and are likely highly indoctrinated into the system you are trying to defend, possibly receiving some of the breadcrumbs.

Re: The Ethical Principles of Public Health

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure I follow. Without a social contract, on what philosophical/moral grounds should I care about anyone else's individual freedom? If there's no philosophical/moral ground, then why does it matter whether or not something is a fantasy?

Firstly - there is no social contract - you (and I) signed nothing. No contract. Just training. Secondly - the governance structure you have now, does not care about your freedoms. I think I can make a strong case that what we have is domination of everyone by the worst of us. We are being herded into some sort of techno-dystopia, and no one in the governance structure is doing anything apart from waving things throu…

Certainly when I say "social contract" it's a metaphor. I don't literally mean a legal contract that people sign. Rather, what I mean is that in exchange for the benefits of living in a society (mutual safety, cooperation on tasks, exchange of ideas, etc.) people give up some of their individual rights (e.g. they agree to recognize private property). Part of what is confusing me, is that respect for individual freedom is often one of the primary components of the social contract.

What I'm not understanding is what you are advocating. Are you saying that society should be structured around an absolute morality provided by a religion? Are you advocating some sort of neo-tribalism where society is built around extended family groups? Do you believe in anarchic utopianism where there would be no crime if there was no government?

Re: The Ethical Principles of Public Health

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Firstly - there is no social contract - you (and I) signed nothing. No contract. Just training. Secondly - the governance structure you have now, does not care about your freedoms. I think I can make a strong case that what we have is domination of everyone by the worst of us. We are being herded into some sort of techno-dystopia, and no one in the governance structure is doing anything apart from waving things throu…

Certainly when I say "social contract" it's a metaphor. I don't literally mean a legal contract that people sign. Rather, what I mean is that in exchange for the benefits of living in a society (mutual safety, cooperation on tasks, exchange of ideas, etc.) people give up some of their individual rights (e.g. they agree to recognize private property). Part of what is confusing me, is that respect for individual freedo…

Ok.

IMO, you are advocating for the existing system, which creates the terror events, fear, etc and indoctrinates the populace to their way of thinking. This is plainly immoral - we have a society based in widely-believed lies. You can dispute my characterisation - but, if you were to research 'news', history, science, etc more deeply, I think you would find that the explanations are merely expedient devices to get you 'bought in'. The aim is to get the turkeys to vote for Christmas - or more specifically - to vote for their servitude. If you get people to go believe in whatever fresh disempowering horror has been created, despite the lack of any personal evidence, you are able to move them towards greater dependence on external governance. You are supporting enslavement.

The opposite to this, is autonomous, self-guided individuals that don't need external governance. I know what I want to do and don't want guidance. Note this is NOT an allowed option. I don't want to pay protection money (taxes) to others, especially when they use that money against me.

Ask yourself, is it acceptable that I live freely? With the ability to self-govern myself, defend myself against attacks on my freedom - eg against police levying fines, requesting licensing, etc - in order to interact in society? You'd think so.. but what we actually have is slavery that wants to call itself 'freedom'.

What I am advocating is 'anything but slavery', even covert slavery. This is easily achieved IMO, by the application of a simple moral principle - the golden rule - "do not treat others in ways that you would not like to be treated". If someone acts against you, you are free to take responsibility and respond as you see fit.

So, I think you have an idea that 'without the social contract, we would be run by the mafia' while failing to realise that you are already run by the very worst mafia! They are invisible to you. And, worse than that, you are parroting the nonsense beliefs they have taught you at school, fully accepting the slave mentality that they would have all their slaves proclaim, and proclaiming it to others.

https://youtu.be/bAF35dekiAY?t=73

Re: The Ethical Principles of Public Health

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By the time the vaccine was widely available we were in full Omicron territory and there was already no risk to hospitals overflowing. For background, if it matters to you, I believe the vaccine saved many thousands of lives of elderly people. It probably did not save the lives of any meaningful number of young healthy people because those people were statistically not at risk of covid. So I believe the vaccine was s…

That wasn't the case here. The vaccine was available to everyone and the hospitals were overflowing with people who refused to get it.

I saw news articles like that too. There was particular concern about ICU beds. Then I checked the NYT live feed of ICU occupancy and it showed that ICU occupancy was barely higher than the historic average. We converted a stadium into a field hospital in NY that was never used. We sent the Navy medical ship, the Mercy to NY. It was never used.

Also, hospitals were full of people who got covid, had mild or no symptoms, and went to the hospital anyways because the news terrified them.

None of these comments deny the fact that a terribly unfortunate number of people died from Covid.

The very first vaccines came out in July 2021, but were not widely available. Omicron was here by November.

Re: The Ethical Principles of Public Health

#65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The social contract is just coercion by force with a nice fancy name so you don't murder the people who threaten you with violence and prison rape if you don't give them 40% of your income.

Isn't the alternative might makes right; where the strong can force the weak to give 100% of their income?

The system you have today is might makes right. If your government was overthrown by a foreign country and replaced, the only difference would be you would temporarily think the new government lacked legitimacy. But pretty soon you'd accept it as the new legitimate authority. This is your cognitive dissonance helping you cope with your submission to this illegitimate authority.

In most cases it is better for the powerful to not take everything from the weak. You want to incentivize them to create more for your to control/take, but never let them keep enough to challenge you.

An actual "social contract" would imply consent and the option to opt-out. But I will literally be thrown in a cage with rapists and murderers if I opt-out. That is the opposite of consent. What you call the social contract is nothing but top-down violent coercion.

Re: The Ethical Principles of Public Health

#66
post #26

FYI -- Hillsdale College does not have a public health program and is not an accredited school of public health (SPH). Their document on "Ethical Principles of Public Health" feels more political than oriented around public health. There are people at actual SPHs that work on public health ethics, it might be worth focusing on those instead of amplifying whatever this is.

This is a declaration of principles, not an appeal to credentialism.

It just seems worthwhile to note that this isn't coming from an organization with any history of working or studying or caring about public health. The public is free to advocate or believe in these principles, just know where they're coming from. It's kind of like how many engineers get upset when non-technical PMs dictate how they should think about or build systems.

Re: The Ethical Principles of Public Health

#67
post #26

FYI -- Hillsdale College does not have a public health program and is not an accredited school of public health (SPH). Their document on "Ethical Principles of Public Health" feels more political than oriented around public health. There are people at actual SPHs that work on public health ethics, it might be worth focusing on those instead of amplifying whatever this is.

Which ones do you object to? What would you prefer?

I prefer the ones outlined by my professional organization, The American Public Health Association: https://www.apha.org/-/media/files/pdf/membergroups/ethics/c...
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