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FTX’s SBF had a secret 'back door' to transfer billions off the books

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Re: FTX’s SBF had a secret 'back door' to transfer billions off the books

#111

Post by danaris »

lostmsu wrote: post #110
TomSwirly wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this is the idea behind crypto in a nutshell: "Some governments have been financially irresponsible in the past, so we need a tool to allow us to bypass all government regulations." However, the rest of us have a name for "bypassing government regulations" - we call it "crime". > What if it were possible to have consumer protection regulation and also remove some of the nasty side effects of government and instit…

> However, the rest of us have a name for "bypassing government regulations" - we call it "crime". Yeah, like hiding Jews during Holocaust was a capital offense. Pretty dumb argument.

Congratulations! You have managed to both post the same argument they just refuted ("some governments in the past were bad, therefore we need to be able to avoid all governments forever"), and invoke Godwin's Law at the same time!

Pretty impressive, I'd say.

Re: FTX’s SBF had a secret 'back door' to transfer billions off the books

#112

Post by MrMan »

malikNF wrote: post #101
MrMan wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

take away retail and these coins will have much much less demand which deflates the whole bubble. so you keys-coins people need all the clueless civilians, it seems to me. it's their desperate speculating that make you wealthy.

Crypto currencies != a way to get wealthy fast. It's an alternative system that helps people store value. >>take away retail and these coins will have much much less demand I was talking about people who don't do due diligence and get caught in scams. Are you implying that retails is somehow the only ones that get duped by scammers like Sam Bankman-Fried ? There's plenty of people in retail who have done better than…

institutions dont lose at the same rate that even smart retail traders do, its a cold fact.

the idea that crypto exists for reasons significantly other than speculation seems hopeful in the extreme given all the overwhelming evidence. maybe someday!

Re: FTX’s SBF had a secret 'back door' to transfer billions off the books

#113

Post by danans »

pdntspa wrote: post #88
andirk wrote: post #17

This is a story of a corrupt CEO. The main crypto part of it is that FTT was seen as actual money on its balance sheets. This individual stealing people's money sheds light on how regulations exist for a reason, especially when handling billions of USD. Doesn't really speak positively or poorly on cryptocurrency as a technology though.

Funny how, despite crypto bros' endless blather about freedom, people still willingly turn to centralized institutions with their crypto It seems they are learning the same lesson as the OG computer nerd power users: nontechnical people suck and they ruin everything for everyone. Making crypto easy-to-use was the beginning of its downfall.

> nontechnical people suck and they ruin everything for everyone.

This is a naive conclusion to reach. "Non-technical" people are very much the reason that those who transact strictly in digital products and services can survive, not the other way around.

Centralized institutions exist because the establishment of trust is essential to even the most basic of human societies. Yes, they can be abused to corrupt ends, but crypto clearly has the same problems, with the malfeasance often committed by "technical people" themselves.

Re: FTX’s SBF had a secret 'back door' to transfer billions off the books

#114

Post by pdntspa »

danans wrote: post #113
pdntspa wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny how, despite crypto bros' endless blather about freedom, people still willingly turn to centralized institutions with their crypto It seems they are learning the same lesson as the OG computer nerd power users: nontechnical people suck and they ruin everything for everyone. Making crypto easy-to-use was the beginning of its downfall.

> nontechnical people suck and they ruin everything for everyone. This is a naive conclusion to reach. "Non-technical" people are very much the reason that those who transact strictly in digital products and services can survive, not the other way around. Centralized institutions exist because the establishment of trust is essential to even the most basic of human societies. Yes, they can be abused to corrupt ends, b…

I'm not so sure about that. Many products and services existed and can exist on smaller scale, and maybe that is the way things should stay. "The cloud" and all its numerous and vast expenses has inserted itself in our culture as "indispensable", but for many things operational costs can be dramatically lower if the user can be trusted to self-host and self-operate, as things once were.

Yes the world would look dramatically different, it'd be more IRC/P2P than Slack/Youtube. But it would be a much better world where users are in control, and can do advanced things after skilling up in the appropriate area. I think that what is happening with Mastodon is a good example of what happens when the mainstream gets its hands on something that maybe it should learn about first.

And the thing is, anyone can become technical. They just need to cross that knowledge barrier to entry. But our society, in all its dysfunctional ineptitude, has decided that this is "inaccessible," and that is evil because everyone should be able to fuck up everything at every time. Yet somehow the guilds of doctors and lawyers and engineers (and drivers of cars!) carry on.

Re: FTX’s SBF had a secret 'back door' to transfer billions off the books

#115

Post by throwoutway »

chrisco255 wrote: post #39
whatever1 wrote: post #12

I am glad that most of HN had called this crypto/NFT/web3.0/ICO BS loong time ago. That contrasts with Mega VCs, celebrities, politicians etc who were praising this tech-glorified Ponzi scheme. Good job to us!

This has happened in tradfi more times than anyone can count. Lehman, Enron, Madoff, etc. Far more scams in tradfi.

Far more times? Haha. No… crypto space did a speed run of 150years of traditional finance in under a decade. For every one example you have in traditional finance, there’s 10 more in cryptocurrencies

Re: FTX’s SBF had a secret 'back door' to transfer billions off the books

#116

Post by misiti3780 »

TacticalCoder wrote: post #94
andirk wrote: post #17

This is a story of a corrupt CEO. The main crypto part of it is that FTT was seen as actual money on its balance sheets. This individual stealing people's money sheds light on how regulations exist for a reason, especially when handling billions of USD. Doesn't really speak positively or poorly on cryptocurrency as a technology though.

> This is a story of a corrupt CEO. The main crypto part of it is that FTT was seen as actual money on its balance sheets. The main crypto part is that it's the person who dictated the upcoming crypto exchange legislation. That corrupt CEO was greasing politicians (to the tune of $40m), was using an ex-CFTC commissioner to lobby a law regulating exchanges (which, by chance, would have made FTX legal and Binance and d…

im not following this:

"had nomimated has CEO of his Alameda Research fund the daughter of a colleague of the SEC's chair, etc."

do you have a link ?

Re: FTX’s SBF had a secret 'back door' to transfer billions off the books

#117

Post by hailwren »

TomSwirly wrote: post #103
hailwren wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s a weird false equivalence here. Whenever critics hear government oversight and interference, they immediately point to the governments that manage their currency relatively well and say “look, these governments do therefore no one needs to worry”. History and contemporary geopolitics are both littered with examples of governments that absolutely ruin their population’s lives with currency problems. What if it…

And this is the idea behind crypto in a nutshell: "Some governments have been financially irresponsible in the past, so we need a tool to allow us to bypass all government regulations." However, the rest of us have a name for "bypassing government regulations" - we call it "crime". > What if it were possible to have consumer protection regulation and also remove some of the nasty side effects of government and instit…

> However, the rest of us have a name for "bypassing government regulations" - we call it "crime".

I don’t think that’s what we call crime. Isn’t crime the direct violation of government regulations?

By your argument, the use of _any_ currency other than your own government’s would be a crime. Or, is the use of every currency a crime in every other country? When I exchange Euros for JPY in the US, have I committed a crime?

As far as I’m aware, there are no laws against the use of cryptocurrency. There are plenty of laws against things like securities fraud and fraud in general, and those are all generally well and good.

> Some governments have been financially irresponsible in the past, so we need a tool to allow us to bypass all government regulations

I think you should probably gain a clearer understanding of how the currency markets have been behaving over the last year. Many currencies have lost >30% of their value against the USD (which might not matter so much if the USD were the same status as the others).

Re: FTX’s SBF had a secret 'back door' to transfer billions off the books

#118

Post by adabaed »

TomSwirly wrote: post #105
adabaed wrote: post #93

There is no doubt that the executive team at FTX should be investigated and pay for what they have done to their users, but let me tell you one thing, they did not force you lazy greedy humans to put a dime into FTX without reading what is an exchange and why everything you have inside there is not yours. Given this, the fact that some of you believe that this is a flaw in blockchain technology worries me because: ei…

Your attitude toward your fellow humans isn't so good, and comes out in each line of what you write. Maybe you should rethink your contempt for humanity? You don't see very happy. > they did not force you lazy greedy humans No, if a CEO lies and commits fraud to steal from investors, it is the CEO's moral and ethical fault. > the fact that some of you believe that this is a flaw in blockchain technology worries me Al…

I'll pass the personal stuff, I hope you realize you're calling another human unhappy when you're saying I have a bad attitude towards others. Interesting at least.

So in your opinion (correct me if I've misunderstood), having a tool that decentralizes power isn't worth the energy it consumes? Is that why you call it "flawed technology"? With infinite clean energy, would you agree that this is actually a good idea or not?

Re: FTX’s SBF had a secret 'back door' to transfer billions off the books

#119

Post by whatever1 »

adabaed wrote: post #96
whatever1 wrote: post #12

I am glad that most of HN had called this crypto/NFT/web3.0/ICO BS loong time ago. That contrasts with Mega VCs, celebrities, politicians etc who were praising this tech-glorified Ponzi scheme. Good job to us!

This is not a blockchain problem.

It is also a problem that blockchain could not, and did not solve.

Re: FTX’s SBF had a secret 'back door' to transfer billions off the books

#120

Post by RickJWagner »

whatever1 wrote: post #12

I am glad that most of HN had called this crypto/NFT/web3.0/ICO BS loong time ago. That contrasts with Mega VCs, celebrities, politicians etc who were praising this tech-glorified Ponzi scheme. Good job to us!

Don't forget the political angle.

This has all the earmarks of big-time crookery.

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