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Agile sucks for software development and I’m tired of pretending it doesn’t

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Re: Agile sucks for software development and I’m tired of pretending it doesn’t

#51
Your current company is doing it wrong - this does not sound like Agile at all. Another point to remember is that Agile is for Product Management and Stakeholders - its not meant to be the fastest, most productive developer pleasing method at all.

It's meant to build cross functional teams of people who can produce predictable amounts of output such that people in Product Management can build roadmaps and concoct release schedules.

Not to mention, once a company has successfully implemented Agile (and its inherent trade-off of dev speed vs. predictable minimums) that company may now replace any person on any team with any other person. Nobody wants to say it but Agile is about hiring low rate contractors instead of expensive FTE resources.

An often overlooked part of Agile is that if you're an experienced dev who's also lazy is that this method provides a lot of cover to hide in. It's about predictable minimums. A clever dev with some talent can work about 4h/day and still outwork some of the less clever cohorts who may work many more hours.

Also, you seem very angry and thats a sign you probably care a great deal about what you're doing at work. Maybe its worth looking for something else to do where things operate more to your liking? Stress really is a killer and few things are as stressful as hating the way your job works every day of your life. Reading your story I think I'd be angry too in your position.

Finally, repeat after me here - "Agile is for MANAGEMENT - Agile is NOT for developers". The Happy Agile Developer is one who's figured out how the game works and uses that understanding to work less.

Re: Agile sucks for software development and I’m tired of pretending it doesn’t

#52
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disclaimer: Defining and using a narrow definition agile IMO is a useless rabbit hole. And the big names in tech also purport to use agile and spend maybe an hour every Friday or Monday doing "agile" type meetings. Which are we talking about here? If it helps, add to my above post that I'm using "agile" to mean the philosophy of defined sprints with stand ups, planning, and retrospectives to help execute a larger, ch…

I agree that there's no use defining things so narrowly, but I think your experience about the meeting load involved in "doing agile" is atypically low for the industry in general.

Maybe so, but it's varied across size and industry and matches with my friends experience in other broad areas. So I guess let's reframe: what is my meeting load estimate (the 4 hour a week high side) missing? How does that get to 4 hours a day, and if not there, what is the maximum?

To be clear, that's not to say that other meetings can't be used, but that they are not part of the "agile" process. I can easily imagine a dev ending up with 4 hours a day, but that's more related to company size and process. Things like design reviews, meeting with other teams, not being able to quickly find the right point of contact, using meetings to find out you have the wrong person, not defining clear agendas, inviting too many people to meetings, and so on. I'd bet some of these are affecting OP, but again, this has nothing to do with the style of development planning/process.

Re: Agile sucks for software development and I’m tired of pretending it doesn’t

#53
I couldn't agree more. There is zero incentive to excel in any way. Solve something really cool? No one cares. Take the next task in the sprint. Spot a problem? Add it to the backlog (to be ignored) and do what you’re tol... I mean, take the next task in the sprint. Spot a problem, put together a solution, save or make a bunch of money for the company? Who told you to do that? That wasn’t the next task in the sprint.

Re: Agile sucks for software development and I’m tired of pretending it doesn’t

#54
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that there's no use defining things so narrowly, but I think your experience about the meeting load involved in "doing agile" is atypically low for the industry in general.

Maybe so, but it's varied across size and industry and matches with my friends experience in other broad areas. So I guess let's reframe: what is my meeting load estimate (the 4 hour a week high side) missing? How does that get to 4 hours a day, and if not there, what is the maximum? To be clear, that's not to say that other meetings can't be used, but that they are not part of the "agile" process. I can easily imagi…

It's easy to get to 4 hours a week of only standups.

Re: Agile sucks for software development and I’m tired of pretending it doesn’t

#55
Yeah it does suck and you’re not wrong. I’ve spent the last 3 years at my company trying to refine our Agile/Scrum process into something that gets out of my engineers way. It basically boils down to the Engineering manager, product manager and project manager or “scrum master” actually putting in a good bit of work to make things run smoothly.

1) keep your stands below 15 minutes. Always. There should also never be more than 15 participants in your stand.

2) The EM/PM/SM or all of the above should be writing high quality tickets that are discrete units of work (they can be tested and have some tangible output). They should never be so large as to take a single developer the entire length of the sprint.

3) Do a single weekly grooming/pointing session. This should take less than 2 hours assuming management did their jobs

4) EM/PM/PM/SM need to actually keep the backlog organized. Don’t make devs sit thru meetings where you slowly drive Jira

5) Do demos, retro and planning in a 3 hour time block with breaks. Balance what went well with what speed bumps you encountered and call out exceptional work done by team members

6) Make judicious use of doing “proof of concepts” to help spec out features/APIs/Integrations before running off to plan larger initiatives

7) Appoint an “Epic Captain” to each epic (group of related tickets). This is dev who is the subject matter expert and has some decision making authority. Defaults to the EM but they should appoint other devs to take proactive ownership over things

8) Proactively track and discuss technical debt and raise it during retrospectives; EM follows through by ticketing it up.

9) Actually do planning when launching major initiatives. A few discussions between devs before leaping into several weeks long project won’t make you waterfall and will actually reduce meetings in the future

For us, the average time per week an engineer spends in meetings is less than 5 hours total, or <1 hour per day on a team of 8. Kinda high but things run smoothly and nobody is out of the loop

Re: Agile sucks for software development and I’m tired of pretending it doesn’t

#56

No one will get far trying to have a debate here. Agile is both poorly and conflictingly well-defined and its adherents seem to lean on "no true Scotsman" defences when given an example of massive inefficiencies an organization that claims to do it. Whatever you are doing is "agile" if you are performing well and not if you aren't. Also the idea of some pure waterfall is nearly as much of a strawman as the ethereal a…

You almost have to admire it from a rhetorical perspective. Kent Beck created a manifesto so vague and flexible that it can literally be anything to anyone.

> Make changes if it isn't working.

If measuring performance is so difficult, then how do you know if it's working or not?

Re: Agile sucks for software development and I’m tired of pretending it doesn’t

#57
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe so, but it's varied across size and industry and matches with my friends experience in other broad areas. So I guess let's reframe: what is my meeting load estimate (the 4 hour a week high side) missing? How does that get to 4 hours a day, and if not there, what is the maximum? To be clear, that's not to say that other meetings can't be used, but that they are not part of the "agile" process. I can easily imagi…

It's easy to get to 4 hours a week of only standups.

Okay, that's not what I said or what OP said though:

> How does that get to 4 hours a day

Re: Agile sucks for software development and I’m tired of pretending it doesn’t

#58
Let me guess, the reason you have those meetings is to report to the PM or whoever about what you did and then what they want you to do, plus talking with clients about features and endlessly rehashing things you already discussed, plus some kind of cross communication between groups that don’t actually need to share anything with each other right now, plus reshuffling the backlog and re-estimating current work, and so on. If that rings true then welcome to Scrumfall. Get out if you can.

https://www.cio.com/article/309171/scrumfall-when-agile-beco...

Re: Agile sucks for software development and I’m tired of pretending it doesn’t

#59

The number of Agile apologists in this comment section surprises me.

Why? Agile has been the favored approach to software development among the startup crowd for over a decade now. I don't think I've had a job since 2008 that didn't use it in some fashion.

Re: Agile sucks for software development and I’m tired of pretending it doesn’t

#60

> There is a reason Elon Musk just fired half of Twitter. Incompetence? Vindictiveness? A huge bag of weed? > Agile team ... non-agile team What is non-agile team, Waterfall? You sre the one demanding spesific information and studies, so explain clearly, and be spesific, what are you even advocating?

Have you ever heard of shape-up? https://basecamp.com/shapeup

One of the issues I have with how agile is all things to all people is that nobody's trying new things. They're trying to fit what they're already doing inside the definition of agile instead.

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