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An unconfirmed tweet about Freeport LNG is upending gas markets

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Re: An unconfirmed tweet about Freeport LNG is upending gas markets

#131

Post by chippiewill »

ThalesX wrote: post #37
veqq wrote: post #3

Commodity traders and investors are very networked and really like such immediate usage news. Many firms also count trucks/traffic near sites etc. so it isn't surprising to see people respond to this. However, the causation is unclear to me. European gas stocks are at full capacity as is and this Winter is warm with minimal gas burned so far. A 7% drop is par for course in the last few weeks. An extra piece of bad ne…

> this Winter is warm with minimal gas burned so far I feel like I'm going crazy as this is not the first time I've seen / heard this argument. What does winter mean? I thought it was the months from December to February. I don't understand the narrative that we're in a warm winter at all . Winter, just like Game of Thrones, is coming.

Winter can be used in multiple ways.

The way you're thinking of is the calendar based season which for the Northern hemisphere is Dec, Jan Feb (with each season being three consecutive months) - more specifically this is called the meteorological season. The astronomical season (which is the more "official" one) starts on 22 December and ends on 21 March.

But there's also a more informal usage, which is definitely prevalent in Europe, which is used to refer to the cold months of the year where you would typically have the heating on. For the UK this spans October to March for example. That doesn't mean you never have heating on in April, and it doesn't mean you _have_ to have the heating on in November. It's just a useful way of thinking about the period of time when gas/energy usage will be high and allows you to describe whether the period as a whole has been mild or particularly cold and the impact that's had on heating.

Re: An unconfirmed tweet about Freeport LNG is upending gas markets

#132

Post by dogcatter »

ThalesX wrote: post #37
veqq wrote: post #3

Commodity traders and investors are very networked and really like such immediate usage news. Many firms also count trucks/traffic near sites etc. so it isn't surprising to see people respond to this. However, the causation is unclear to me. European gas stocks are at full capacity as is and this Winter is warm with minimal gas burned so far. A 7% drop is par for course in the last few weeks. An extra piece of bad ne…

> this Winter is warm with minimal gas burned so far I feel like I'm going crazy as this is not the first time I've seen / heard this argument. What does winter mean? I thought it was the months from December to February. I don't understand the narrative that we're in a warm winter at all . Winter, just like Game of Thrones, is coming.

Are you American? I'm British but lived in the USA for several years, and I think there's a cultural difference here. Americans attach precise boundaries to the seasons, whereas in Europe 'Winter' means something more like the part of the year that's normally cold.

Re: An unconfirmed tweet about Freeport LNG is upending gas markets

#133

Post by dogcatter »

ThalesX wrote: post #120
EdwardDiego wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Language is fluid. And with climate change, traditional seasons aren't nearly as useful in discussion as they used to be. In my area of my country, our autumn used to be the time of big stable highs giving rise to clear days and frosts overnight. Great time of year to go hiking, minimal chance of intense rainfall or snowfall in the high country. Now the weather in autumn resembles that in spring - predominant north w…

> And with climate change, traditional seasons aren't nearly as useful in discussion as they used to be. It's definitely a bit more useful than arbitrary subjective interpretations of said terms based on hyperlocal weather patterns. > I feel you're still getting hung up on definitions that are becoming more obsolete by the year. I feel like you're not getting hung up enough on the definition of a definition. This mig…

Lolol, you're the best example I've seen of "hacker news guy meets ambiguities in real language usage, can't handle it".

> I feel like you're not getting hung up enough on the definition of a definition. This might or might not be true, just how like if I feel that April is cold, it doesn't make it winter.

Meet interpersonal linguistic negotiation. Since in most Northern places most people feel cold roughly between November and March, no your one personal experience doesn't matter. Just like 'tall' is a perfectly useful word, even though it doesn't have a precise meaning in terms of number of millimetres.

Re: An unconfirmed tweet about Freeport LNG is upending gas markets

#134

Post by mmarq »

dogcatter wrote: post #132
ThalesX wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> this Winter is warm with minimal gas burned so far I feel like I'm going crazy as this is not the first time I've seen / heard this argument. What does winter mean? I thought it was the months from December to February. I don't understand the narrative that we're in a warm winter at all . Winter, just like Game of Thrones, is coming.

Are you American? I'm British but lived in the USA for several years, and I think there's a cultural difference here. Americans attach precise boundaries to the seasons, whereas in Europe 'Winter' means something more like the part of the year that's normally cold .

In Europa proper, Winter is the period of the year between Dec 22nd and Mar 21st. In the UK, we have 5 months of Winter and 7 of Autumn, that move around the year like Ramadan.

Re: An unconfirmed tweet about Freeport LNG is upending gas markets

#135

Post by kordlessagain »

mmarq wrote: post #134
dogcatter wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you American? I'm British but lived in the USA for several years, and I think there's a cultural difference here. Americans attach precise boundaries to the seasons, whereas in Europe 'Winter' means something more like the part of the year that's normally cold .

In Europa proper, Winter is the period of the year between Dec 22nd and Mar 21st. In the UK, we have 5 months of Winter and 7 of Autumn, that move around the year like Ramadan.

Yeah, it's usually −171°C there by this time.

Re: An unconfirmed tweet about Freeport LNG is upending gas markets

#136

Post by [deleted] »

mmarq wrote: post #134
dogcatter wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you American? I'm British but lived in the USA for several years, and I think there's a cultural difference here. Americans attach precise boundaries to the seasons, whereas in Europe 'Winter' means something more like the part of the year that's normally cold .

In Europa proper, Winter is the period of the year between Dec 22nd and Mar 21st. In the UK, we have 5 months of Winter and 7 of Autumn, that move around the year like Ramadan.

[deleted]

Re: An unconfirmed tweet about Freeport LNG is upending gas markets

#137

Post by lucumo »

ThalesX wrote: post #116
EdwardDiego wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just read "the cold time of year" when you see "winter" and you'll get past this.

I'm not trying to 'get past this', I'm trying to express my disbelief at the fact that: A - Things have gotten to the point where we can't talk about a damn season without personal interpretations of it; B - This has seeped into Hacker News, a forum I thought was for more diligent folks.

You must be fun at parties. Things haven't "gotten" to this point. It has always been thus. Kindergarten definitions leave out many nuances.

Definitions are nearly always dependent on context, are nearly always fuzzy around the edges, and are nearly always subject to usefulness.

And then we aren't even discussing metaphors, hyperbole, pars pro toto, tota pro paribus, other kinds of metonymy, and more figures of speech.

Context made it perfectly clear what was meant here. It's a far more useful usage than the kindergarten level definition where winter starts at the winter solstice and not a day sooner.

Re: An unconfirmed tweet about Freeport LNG is upending gas markets

#138

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

mmarq wrote: post #134
dogcatter wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you American? I'm British but lived in the USA for several years, and I think there's a cultural difference here. Americans attach precise boundaries to the seasons, whereas in Europe 'Winter' means something more like the part of the year that's normally cold .

In Europa proper, Winter is the period of the year between Dec 22nd and Mar 21st. In the UK, we have 5 months of Winter and 7 of Autumn, that move around the year like Ramadan.

> 7 of Autumn

I saw what you did, there…

I lived in London, back in the 1970s, and can confirm.

Generally, a rainy autumn. Sort of like Seattle, for the US folks familiar.

Re: An unconfirmed tweet about Freeport LNG is upending gas markets

#139

Post by ThalesX »

dogcatter wrote: post #133
ThalesX wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And with climate change, traditional seasons aren't nearly as useful in discussion as they used to be. It's definitely a bit more useful than arbitrary subjective interpretations of said terms based on hyperlocal weather patterns. > I feel you're still getting hung up on definitions that are becoming more obsolete by the year. I feel like you're not getting hung up enough on the definition of a definition. This mig…

Lolol, you're the best example I've seen of "hacker news guy meets ambiguities in real language usage, can't handle it". > I feel like you're not getting hung up enough on the definition of a definition. This might or might not be true, just how like if I feel that April is cold, it doesn't make it winter. Meet interpersonal linguistic negotiation. Since in most Northern places most people feel cold roughly between N…

No post body was provided.

Re: An unconfirmed tweet about Freeport LNG is upending gas markets

#140

Post by dogcatter »

ThalesX wrote: post #139
dogcatter wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lolol, you're the best example I've seen of "hacker news guy meets ambiguities in real language usage, can't handle it". > I feel like you're not getting hung up enough on the definition of a definition. This might or might not be true, just how like if I feel that April is cold, it doesn't make it winter. Meet interpersonal linguistic negotiation. Since in most Northern places most people feel cold roughly between N…

Quoted post unavailable.

The only reason discourse has degenerated is because you made it about the meanings of words. Everyone else on this thread is having a pretty productive conversation.
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