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FTX faces potential hack, sees mysterious outflows totaling more than $600M

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231–240 of 890 posts

Re: FTX faces potential hack, sees mysterious outflows totaling more than $600M

#231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By force, if necessary.

No technically. There are seemingly endless ways to move funds anonymously.

There's endless ways to move cash.

If/when the movement of cash/crypto is peer-to-peer or interacting with a machine only (a machine that gives quarters for dollar bills or a DEX, for example) KYC is entirely unnecessary.

Re: FTX faces potential hack, sees mysterious outflows totaling more than $600M

#232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is a human failure Is there any crypto out there without humans ? Is there an undo button to reverse the transaction? All financial systems involve humans

> Is there any crypto out there without humans ? What OP is referring to is that you don't need to trust people if the dex is on-chain and verifiable. FTX was a non-transparent and insolvent centralized exchange which wouldn't be possible if it was on-chain because anyone can see the funds that are available and the protocol would not allow leverage backed by non-existing collateral. > Is there an undo button to reve…

What foogazi was perhaps suggesting is that no financial system can work if it doesn't account for fundamental human behavior - we make mistakes and we are greedy if not held accountable "off chain".

The blockchain is perfect when everyone acts in good faith and makes no mistakes.

In the real world, that's not the case. Unfortunately, you need centralized institutions to regulate financial transactions, control the supply of money and enforce laws when they're broken, reverse mistakes when they happen.

> The future of finance is people being in charge of their own money and where no unexpected entity can arbitrarily inflate the supply, which is only possible with crypto.

This is not the future, and it'll almost certainly never happen with crypto.

Re: FTX faces potential hack, sees mysterious outflows totaling more than $600M

#233
post #3

They’re making Madoff look good. He semi-voluntarily* turned himself in when the jig was up, and the govt eventually recovered about 2/3rd of the money FTX seems like it’s still trying to steal funds *Madoff confessed to his family, said he would turn himself in, and asked for 24 hours to get affairs in order. Family refused, called FBI immediately

Madoff recovery is 88.35%. See: https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-announces-... . Many of Madoff's victims exaggerated their loses. If they invested $1MM at a claimed return of 15% for 6 years, they would claim they lost $2MM, not the $1MM principal. (I just hope our Government doesn't try to bail out crypto speculators!)

I honestly don't understand why any speculators get bailed out ever. They're in it for above-market profits, how is it that they don't have to accept the risk?

Re: FTX faces potential hack, sees mysterious outflows totaling more than $600M

#234

Regardless of whether you are pro- or anti- crypto, the collapse of FTX, SBF's bubble bursting in a rather extreme fashion, and now this hack are more nails in the coffin for mainstream support. I am no fan of crypto myself, but it's interesting to think what would have to happen for crypto to burnish its image. Would key people have to voluntarily form some sort of coordinating council and self-regulate? Would they…

This isn't crypto. This is a centralized exchange with a centralized website, with centralized databases, that is run and controlled by humans. In fact, if you use a centralized exchange there is no use of blockchain for the most part. There's a literal saying, "Not your keys, not your coins". Only if people would listen.

> There's a literal saying, "Not your keys, not your coins".

Doesn't that also legitimatize a hack then? If someone hacks or steals your keys, you can't then turn around and say "but wait, those aren't your keys".

Re: FTX faces potential hack, sees mysterious outflows totaling more than $600M

#235
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's going to prison anyway, his reputation is tarnished, maybe he figured: Why not make a run for it?

This could be pretty interesting leverage. "I hold the private key to refund 80% of my victims losses, reduce my sentence or it dies with me."

[deleted]

Re: FTX faces potential hack, sees mysterious outflows totaling more than $600M

#236

Regardless of whether you are pro- or anti- crypto, the collapse of FTX, SBF's bubble bursting in a rather extreme fashion, and now this hack are more nails in the coffin for mainstream support. I am no fan of crypto myself, but it's interesting to think what would have to happen for crypto to burnish its image. Would key people have to voluntarily form some sort of coordinating council and self-regulate? Would they…

This isn't crypto. This is a centralized exchange with a centralized website, with centralized databases, that is run and controlled by humans. In fact, if you use a centralized exchange there is no use of blockchain for the most part. There's a literal saying, "Not your keys, not your coins". Only if people would listen.

The exchange is a component of crypto, as an industry. Imagine defending social media but shitting on Facebook. To use your words to try and make your argument:

This isn't social media. This is Facebook with a centralized website, with centralized databases, that is run and controlled by humans. In fact, if you use a Facebook there is no use of social media for the most part.

There's a literal saying, "not paying for it, you're the proruct". Only if people would listen.

Re: FTX faces potential hack, sees mysterious outflows totaling more than $600M

#237

Regardless of whether you are pro- or anti- crypto, the collapse of FTX, SBF's bubble bursting in a rather extreme fashion, and now this hack are more nails in the coffin for mainstream support. I am no fan of crypto myself, but it's interesting to think what would have to happen for crypto to burnish its image. Would key people have to voluntarily form some sort of coordinating council and self-regulate? Would they…

I'm pro-crypto. This is just a repeat of Mt Gox from 2014. Same scam. Gamblers and get-rich-quick idiots get wiped, as they should. Those people don't want regulation; they see that as an obstacle to becoming billionaires. In a few years, you'll see them gambling their money again.

The real reason there'll be regulation isn't because the community wants to be reassured; it's because governments are afraid, and want control over the entire financial system since they believe they can tame "systemic risks" (while using bullshit value-at-risk models; I guess everyone in this story's an idiot). And in the new bull market, when the abysmal idiots want to get rich quick again, you and I might bail them out.

Re: FTX faces potential hack, sees mysterious outflows totaling more than $600M

#238
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's going to prison anyway, his reputation is tarnished, maybe he figured: Why not make a run for it?

This could be pretty interesting leverage. "I hold the private key to refund 80% of my victims losses, reduce my sentence or it dies with me."

> reduce my sentence or it dies with me

He would go to jail. This isn’t even a tough one.

Re: FTX faces potential hack, sees mysterious outflows totaling more than $600M

#239
post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm, tbh, that's a point I hadn't fully considered. To flip your point around, what hypothetical scenario would be bad for the crypto ecosystem long term?

- Bugs or some fundamental/unfixable exploits in bitcoin algorithms - Successful or semi-successful 51% attack (maybe state sponsored) - Global energy crisis/crackdown on mining - Global economic crisis of the scale where people desperately need cash/commodities and can't waste their money in speculation

While I agree that those things would harm the popular perception of crypto, continued fraud, theft, and greed are also doing so too.

Re: FTX faces potential hack, sees mysterious outflows totaling more than $600M

#240

Regardless of whether you are pro- or anti- crypto, the collapse of FTX, SBF's bubble bursting in a rather extreme fashion, and now this hack are more nails in the coffin for mainstream support. I am no fan of crypto myself, but it's interesting to think what would have to happen for crypto to burnish its image. Would key people have to voluntarily form some sort of coordinating council and self-regulate? Would they…

This isn't crypto. This is a centralized exchange with a centralized website, with centralized databases, that is run and controlled by humans. In fact, if you use a centralized exchange there is no use of blockchain for the most part. There's a literal saying, "Not your keys, not your coins". Only if people would listen.

You're right that a lot of the risks are due to holding in a central website. But cryptocurrency in a central website is more risky than fiat in a central website, because if a central website gets hacked and the hackers steal fiat, generally those transactions will be reversed, whereas if the hackers steal cryptocurrency, generally those can't be reversed.
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